Optimize Your Job Search: Recruiter Panel Q&A with Enrique Ruiz , Ximena Cervantes, Amber Stevens, and Michael Orozco

[MUSIC] 0:00 Hello, welcome to the recruiter panel. 0:07 My name is Amber Stevens. 0:10 I am a student success specialists here at Treehouse for 0:13 our frontend web development tech degree. 0:17 Before I begin, I do wanna mention there is a captioning link provided below 0:20 the live stream for those who would like a live transcript of today's event. 0:23 The captioning link will also be provided in the chat. 0:28 So that being said, I'm happy to present our three amazing panelists today. 0:30 First, I would like to introduce Michael Orozco. 0:38 Michael is a first gen LGBTQ Latinx professional, born and 0:42 raised in Stockton, California. 0:46 He has been living in San Francisco for the last [INAUDIBLE], 0:49 positions within the talent space in the Agency World Tech systems, in 0:53 the unicorn startup world with Uber, and currently in the fame world at Netflix. 0:58 Michael has been building a career and community in inclusive and 1:03 diverse recruiting to rewrite how's the tech industry and 1:07 hiring influencers think of recruiting and building teams. 1:11 Thanks for coming, Michael. 1:16 >> Of course, I'm excited to be here and what a great introduction. 1:18 Thank you. 1:20 >> You're welcome. 1:21 Next we have Mr. Ximena Cervantes. 1:23 Ximena first entered the tech world while in college at a recruiting firm focused on 1:25 hiring executive engineering talent for companies like Uber, Twilio, and House. 1:29 Later she had the opportunity to help bootcamp grads get their first jobs 1:35 in tech. 1:39 Since then, Ximena has gone in house to focus on hiring at high growth startups. 1:40 Last year, she joined Vouch as the first recruiter, 1:46 building out the interview process from scratch. 1:49 And that work grew into a team of five focused on building a high growth team, 1:52 awesome. 1:58 Outside of work, Ximena is passionate about food and travel shows, 1:58 discovering new places, and spending time with family. 2:02 Hello Ximena, so glad you could be here. 2:05 >> All right, Thank you. 2:07 >> And lastly, we have Enrique Ruiz. 2:10 Enrique has a deep passion for his job and loves recruiting. 2:14 He believes in connecting with top talent and finding them a home is a blessing. 2:18 He enjoys writing, reading, and learning about leadership theory and practice. 2:23 Enrique believes we experienced leadership every minute of the day in every 2:28 interaction we have. 2:32 He enjoys writing, blogging about how he has seen leadership mold his life, 2:34 as well as offering young people his take on leadership. 2:38 Simply put, leadership matters. 2:41 Great to have you here, Enrique. 2:43 [CROSSTALK] Thank you all. 2:45 I'm gonna go ahead and start with some questions that I have. 2:50 And then towards the end, we're gonna do some audience questions and answers. 2:52 So you're watching and you would like us to rephrase, 2:56 please go ahead and use the question feature to the right of the stream and 3:00 we'll get to that In about 40 minutes. 3:05 All right, so I'm just gonna start asking questions. 3:08 And honestly, whoever wants to jump in and answer you can do it, all right? 3:11 There's no like, I'm not gonna be calling anybody out or pointing out. 3:14 I'll just let you jump in when you hear a question that you feel passionate you 3:17 wanna answer, okay? 3:21 So my first question is this, 3:23 what stage of the job search is the recruiter involved in? 3:25 And this is again open to any of you, so. 3:29 >> Okay, I guess I could go first. 3:33 So I think a lot of people who are new to the tech industry or 3:35 maybe they're just getting started with their careers, 3:39 don't realize that recruiters are a part of the process the entire time. 3:42 Whether that is the very first kickoff of creating the job description, posting it. 3:47 Getting people people interested in the role, looking at all of your applications. 3:52 Being the first person that you talk to, reading all the feedback, moving you 3:57 through the process, even though you might not be hearing from us directly. 4:01 And then finally, going through those offer negotiation stages. 4:06 So at most tech companies, a recruiter will be there at the very, 4:08 very beginning when the role is just being created. 4:13 >> [COUGH] I'll also happen as well. 4:17 So I'm currently the program manager, I used to be a recruiter, 4:21 I'm always recruiter at heart. 4:24 So I think I have a couple of different perspectives of my experience in 4:25 recruiting and also on the other side now on the programming side, 4:29 since I support recruiting teams. 4:32 I think a good recruiter is involved throughout the process from start to 4:34 finish. 4:38 Meaning, before your hire, you didn't even ask you hired. 4:38 And so I think a strong recruiter is someone who is there when you're applying 4:41 for the role and providing a strong plumbing experience. 4:45 Meaning, your guide into learning about the company, 4:49 your guide into learning about what this means expecting of the role, 4:52 real conversations also to onboarding as well. 4:56 And I think that's what makes a strong recruiter is really from start to finish. 4:59 So before you hire anybody, >> Okay. 5:02 >> Perfectly put, that those are great answers for sure. 5:07 >> I'm saying thumbs up from America. 5:10 So all right great. 5:11 Okay, so here's another question. 5:13 What do you look for in an ideal candidate? 5:16 >> Can you guys hear me? 5:25 Can you all hear me? 5:25 >> Yes. 5:27 >> Yeah, I posted this on LinkedIn the other day cuz I was asked that exact 5:28 question. 5:32 Well, I'm asked all the time, but I posted on LinkedIn I said, I look for 5:33 people that are hungry, that are humble, and they're honest in the role and 5:38 in the work that they're trying to engage with. 5:42 I think as recruiters we work off of the job descriptions and 5:45 the duties that we gotta fill, right? 5:49 But I think for me, I look for not only those skill sets, 5:51 the things that people need to be able to be the table, but 5:55 also the intangible things, the following up, the saying thank you. 5:59 The little token, a lot of that. 6:04 Maybe a lot of you might not think about. 6:07 We use the term wanted, the wanting to work for a company. 6:10 If there's like an actual passion for the company, 6:14 you know some things that most people might not know. 6:16 Those things go, for me, a long way because it shows 6:19 that you're investing in talk to me or my company, and 6:24 that there's this passion within to work at my company. 6:29 Those are things I like to look for. 6:34 Better things, but that's just me. 6:39 >> I can add on I love the three H's, hunger, honesty, 6:43 and what was the third one? 6:47 >> Hungry, humble, and honest. 6:48 >> Love it. 6:51 I think to simplify it I always say for Netflix I mean typically 6:52 two areas it's one is roll fit and the others is culture. 6:57 So it's not culture fit, it's how are you going to add on to our culture? 7:02 How will you align with our culture? 7:05 How will you change our culture? 7:07 So it's really role fit and culture add? 7:09 >> Yeah, I agree with both Michael and Enrique here. 7:14 I think the actual fit with the role can be really important. 7:17 But as a small organization, right now we're only about 100 people. 7:21 Some of the other things that we look for is a learning and growth mindset. 7:25 People who are going to be really excited about change because we are changing all 7:29 the time, growing. 7:33 People that are gonna be really proactive, maybe be a little bit of risk takers. 7:34 And then folks who are also willing to take initiative. 7:38 Maybe they'll be able to suggest changes or work pretty independently to fulfill 7:41 some of the objectives that are gonna be in front of them. 7:45 So definitely as a smaller organization, we're looking for 7:48 those other attributes of the candidate. 7:52 >> Well, thank you all, those are great answers. 7:59 I love the three H's, Enrique that's great. 8:01 Honestly, being humble is not something that you hear that often from a recruiter. 8:04 So it's kind of refreshing and interesting to hear that perspective. 8:08 >> I will add, the reason I throw that in there is because, and I'm sure Michael and 8:13 Ximena notice, some of the people I talked to are really cool. 8:18 They do some, I work for a digital marketing firm. 8:22 And the people I talked to are really awesome. 8:25 They're like the cool kid on the block. 8:28 And when the cool kid on the block comes through in an interview as humble, 8:30 it's really refreshing. 8:35 It's like, they don't think they walk on water, so I don't know. 8:37 That's why I bring it up. 8:41 >> It makes sense, it's great, I love it. 8:42 All right, so can you tell me, 8:45 how do you run an inclusive candidate search process? 8:48 >> That's the question of the year. 8:55 >> [LAUGH] >> It is. 8:57 [LAUGH] >> I'll take a first attempt at it. 9:00 >> Yeah. >> And this is a long question that could 9:03 be answered in multiple ways that really every stage in interviewing, 9:05 even after and before. 9:09 I think for one, it starts off with having a representative recruiting pipeline and 9:10 meeting that we're interviewing various types of different candidates and 9:15 different backgrounds, different demographics, and different age, 9:18 years of experience. 9:22 And so it's one is essentially having a representative pipeline to 9:23 ensure we're interviewing multiple types of folks. 9:27 And so essentially when we wanna go to offer with someone we know that we've done 9:31 our due diligence with interviewing different types of candidates. 9:34 The next is it's really preparing and equipping the recruiting teams and 9:38 hiring managers. 9:41 And so sometimes I think companies maybe focus just on recruiting or 9:41 focus just on hiring managers, but I think it's important to focus on both. 9:45 And so what I mean by equipping those things is, having interview trainings, 9:50 having bias trainings, and 9:54 having them understand different terms that exist in the communities. 9:55 And so I mean, as Enrique mentioned, it's a very hot topic inclusive days. 9:59 And so with that being said, there is a lot of learning that everyone needs to do, 10:05 even folks in VDI space today. 10:10 But there's also a lot of unlearn as well, because this company and 10:12 industry is changing very quickly. 10:15 So that's a bit of what I had mentioned as well. 10:17 >> One of the things we do is we bring a lot of data into the process as well, 10:20 whether it's during the search or 10:25 after, reflecting on where were certain areas of concern that we had. 10:27 And by bringing in data and 10:32 we use a tool called gem in order to look at these analytics. 10:34 We're actually able to looking at how we move male candidates through the process 10:37 versus female candidates, how we move different ethnicities through the process. 10:41 And we could actually really look at where we're getting stuck, 10:45 where the metrics' off? 10:49 What's happening with these percentages? 10:50 And actually being able to really pinpoint what might be an area of concern or 10:52 an area of improvement really for our process. 10:57 So that's something that we're always auditing is exactly what Michael said. 11:00 But then adding to that and saying here are the areas where we can very 11:04 specifically continue to improve upon. 11:07 Sometimes it's looking at the recruiting team specifically and 11:10 being able to identify our own unconscious biases. 11:13 And sometimes it might be the hiring managers, our interview teams. 11:17 But really being a lot of data into recruiting has been really critical I 11:20 think over the last couple of years and building an inclusive process. 11:24 >> [COUGH] If I can add to the things. 11:30 And this is my jam, this is my space inclusive of putting, so 11:33 I get really excited about this. 11:37 >> But one thing that we are really starting to do is diversify where we 11:39 are posting our roles. 11:42 And so yes, folks can go to your career company side and buying roles there. 11:43 But also, we also need to get outside of what we're typically post our roles and 11:48 getting to different communities. 11:51 And so posting in for example, the thing is in tech or color, or 11:53 these different organizations that exist. 11:56 And so we're pulling from our roles writing from these communities. 11:59 And the next is, I think interview experience is super, super important. 12:02 Folks who could just withdraw from the interview, 12:06 it wouldn't be with the company, 12:08 if they don't see someone that reflects themselves with the interview. 12:10 And so when you think about the interview panels, 12:14 we need representation of interview panels. 12:16 We don't want a homogeneous panel with everyone who looks the exact same. 12:18 Because then, how is somebody gonna see themselves in your company as well? 12:21 So there are many, many things that companies can do to really 12:25 create an inclusive innovative experience [INAUDIBLE]. 12:28 >> Great. 12:35 I see another thumbs up from the review. 12:36 So, all right. 12:37 >> I've been a fan of Michael forever, I followed him on LinkedIn. 12:38 I'm blushing because I'm on the panel. 12:42 So I'm like, my gosh, Mike was crushing it. 12:44 >> [LAUGH] Michael, you're famous, you hear? 12:46 >> That's fine, but hopefully win then. 12:50 >> [LAUGH] >> Awesome. 12:52 Okay, I mean, that kind of leads into what you were just talking about Michael, 12:56 where do you source most of your candidates from? 13:01 Is there applications? 13:04 Is it LinkedIn, specific partnerships with companies? 13:06 Where do you usually source candidates from? 13:09 >> So I can take a jab at this one, let's see. 13:16 So I think as a recruiter, you have to not only be a recruiter, but 13:19 you have to be a diversity recruiter, diversity sourcer, conscious. 13:23 So as I'm sourcing, we're headquartered out of Portland, but 13:27 I'm sourcing out of all over the country. 13:31 If I know the position [INAUDIBLE] so 13:34 there is obviously parts of the country that are in another parts of the country. 13:36 So I need to be able to be conscious and 13:41 understand where those pools of talent might be hosted around those areas. 13:44 Engagement for schools, perhaps the HBCUs or organizations that might be 13:48 connected to those kinds of schools or things, community colleges. 13:53 I think that's one thing that I've tried to kind of engage is, a lot 13:58 of times you wanna go for the top, bigger companies wanna go for top tier schools. 14:03 I think there's golden nuggets in the community colleges and 14:09 things like that where you find these hungry, passionate. 14:13 I hire a lot of designers that are awesomely talented, 14:17 that just need that to be seen, and need to be talked to. 14:21 You say, hey, Portland? 14:24 Design jobs in Portland, that's really awesome working for a global company. 14:26 Where'd you come from? 14:30 So I think as a recruiter going, searching to where the talent might be, 14:31 letting people know that you exist. 14:36 A lot of younger people don't realize there's companies you 14:39 never would have thought of, right? 14:42 And just having a strategy around it, so that you're not only going there, but 14:45 you're also building relationships with those organizations. 14:49 Cuz it can't just be transactional, it has to be relational. 14:53 There you go, that's what I got. 14:57 >> Yeah, I think the speaker right before us mentioned something that's along 15:01 the lines when it comes to people who have maybe gone to top tier universities 15:06 versus other universities, schools, colleges, boot camps. 15:11 They just had different opportunities. 15:16 They decided to spend their money in different ways. 15:17 You can't necessarily judge somebody on what they did when they were an 18 year 15:19 old or 17 year old. 15:24 And that's definitely something I think a lot about when it comes to people who 15:25 are coming out of traditional education versus non-traditional education. 15:29 It's just those opportunities at that time were different for those people. 15:33 But typically, where we're sourcing, 15:37 LinkedIn is obviously gonna be a really popular choice for recruiters. 15:39 However, there's a lot of engineers that are not on LinkedIn. 15:43 I think for folks that might be coming out of programs where they're new to their 15:46 career, this is a space they're really gonna wanna be at. 15:50 But your career is gonna transform so quickly, and before you know it, 15:53 you're gonna have so many recruiters reaching out to you that you're gonna not 15:56 wanna be on a platform like that, because you don't wanna be found. 15:59 And so places that we also have partnerships with companies like Hired and 16:03 Triplebyte. 16:07 But we also try and use those other relationships like Enrique was mentioning, 16:08 with organizations. 16:12 So my company is a YCombinator company. 16:13 So we use YCombinator work at a startup platform to both coasts our roles, 16:15 to connect with candidates. 16:20 Companies like the Mom Projects, Power to Fly, those are other organizations 16:23 that we're partnering with and working with in order to find really great talent. 16:28 >> Add on [COUGH] as well plus what Enrique and Tamena. 16:34 Every company is very, very different with how recruiting teams operate, 16:39 what they own. 16:42 Some recruiters own all stages of how it came into their pipeline. 16:43 So like Netflix, our recruiting team own's applicants, stay on referrals, and 16:47 they're also sourcing. 16:51 So all three components are embedded into the role of recruiter at Netflix. 16:52 And so we hire a lot of applicants, we hire a lot of referrals, and 16:56 we do a lot of sourcing as well for the talent that is not playing to our roles. 16:59 And so we hire really from all across the board. 17:03 Also, a big form of hiring for us is my company is very identity. 17:06 So we plan so many different types of events, whether it's engineering, 17:12 the PM worlds, or even events where we are trying to cultivate communities with 17:15 different types of demographics. 17:19 So, criminals events, there's purposes when you see a company host an event, 17:22 one is for networking, one is for employer branding, and it's always for recruiting. 17:26 So anyone attending this event got out to you, 17:31 this is an example of event with how folks can get hired. 17:33 But if you see a company hosting event, attend that event, 17:36 your name will then get in their radar, in their pipelines, and 17:39 the recruiters will then see that you've attended this event. 17:41 And it shows that your company, you're a warm lead, and 17:44 you'll stay in that recruiting pipeline for a year. 17:48 And so I attend those events because we also hire a lot of folks who actually 17:51 attend our events. 17:54 And the next is for everyone in this room, join different communities. 17:56 And Tamena mentioned that's how actually we met before and 18:00 we were on a different engagement with. 18:03 Join these organizations, we source from the network, 18:06 we source the Power to Fly network, we source from the Depth Color network. 18:09 And so join these networks as well. 18:13 I have never sourced top schools when I was sourcing. 18:16 I actually looked at these different types of organizations. 18:18 And as Enrique said, hiring a good recruiter is a diversity of recruiter, 18:22 even if they don't have a diversity, I add term in front of their name. 18:26 So those are some things that I would add as well. 18:30 >> Those are some great answers, thank you all. 18:34 That's good to hear about joining groups, honestly. 18:37 Because I think for somebody who is an introvert like myself, 18:39 I always think why bother, why go out of my way to do something like that? 18:42 Especially when you show up at an event like that, and you don't know anybody, and 18:46 there's just a ton of people there, and it's kinda overwhelming, right? 18:49 So, but it's good to hear that doing that actually can pay off. 18:52 So I'm gonna go ahead and move down my question list here, let's see. 18:57 So, What keywords 19:00 do you search for when you're sourcing for talent? 19:05 >> All I'm gonna explain because Tamena mentioned something that I didn't know 19:10 that her company was YCombinator, which is super cool. 19:14 That is the only company I've used in the past. 19:17 I've literally added YCombinator into research string with one of the folks who 19:21 are working at these types of companies, or initiatives, or at that background. 19:24 But obviously, the keywords range from anything and everything. 19:28 It could be Java, JavaScript, only Java lead a project end to end. 19:30 It could be a keyword, it could be phrases. 19:36 But then also in the world when we're trying to build a diverse recruiting 19:38 pipelines, you could throw an LGBTQ, you would find me. 19:42 You could throw a [INAUDIBLE] net, you may find me. 19:46 And so we also get creative with the different types of keywords writing in. 19:48 So it's keywords and phrases, anything and everything in mind. 19:52 Yeah, I think to put the onus on the candidates, I mean, 19:57 a good recruiter is creating pretty robust what's called Boolean search strings. 20:02 It's like algorithms to find things, right, on the Internet world better. 20:10 And LinkedIn, if you create a good Boolean search for 20:14 you're gonna put in the biggest chunkiest skill sets of the job, right? 20:18 So I think as candidates, you have to be you have to put in a lot of work and 20:24 effort to see okay, what job do I see myself doing? 20:29 How have I done those duties in my current role? 20:33 And putting all those terms into your resume, into your LinkedIn, so 20:38 that you can at least pop up in the search, and at least be on page one or 20:43 two, or three of the LinkedIn search. 20:47 So you as the candidate need to own the effort you're putting in, 20:50 because if those terms that Michael was putting in there, 20:54 he meant us putting in there, you might not pop up at all. 20:57 And that's not on us. 21:01 We're trying, we're plugging away, 21:02 we're finding creative ways, but it feels pop up. 21:05 It's like you're going to a dance with nobody. 21:09 You're going to the dance yourself. 21:11 I don't want to go to put in the work. 21:13 I don't want to go [INAUDIBLE]. 21:15 So put in the work. 21:16 Do your research. 21:17 >> I think that's a good plug. 21:21 You don't have one thing with LinkedIn and if you're searching for 21:23 a job if you're currently made stage in your career, 21:26 make sure your LinkedIn is built out even if you're not looking. 21:29 A surprise opportunity might come and get you just because you have your built up. 21:32 >> [SOUND] All right, 21:39 Next question, so, All right. 21:44 Here's a good question, what does it take, do you think, to get an interview? 21:48 >> Yeah! 21:56 [LAUGH] It's a tough question. 21:57 >> I think it's probably different for all of us, like Michael is at a big company. 22:01 He man is like at this niche kind of company, and 22:06 I met him at a medium-sized design firm. 22:09 So It just depends, I think I'm the backup on this panel, 22:12 you just have to put in work. 22:18 I think of it like this, and this might be a little bit weird but 22:21 I think of candidates for hire managers, are kind of like dating, 22:25 you gotta learn how to date well. 22:29 Right, like if you're gonna ask somebody from the first LinkedIn message and 22:31 say perfect for you. 22:37 I want to make out the first date, I need a job right now. 22:39 Let's go. 22:41 Whoa, that is intense! 22:42 That's a lot! 22:44 I want to just have coffee, maybe? 22:46 I think you got to learn how to engage socially with people like us cuz we're 22:48 humans. 22:53 We got a lot of stuff going on, especially during the crazy pandemic, 22:53 like everybody else. 22:57 So, how you engage matters, where you engage matters. 22:58 I can meet someone in an elevator, and if I could interview them in two minutes 23:03 really quick and gauge it, okay, let's talk tomorrow at 12, right? 23:08 So I think for me, it's how you engage me. 23:13 If you just want a quick, just, I know I'm good for you because it's not the other, 23:16 and you just want me to pass you on, that turns me off. 23:21 I don't like that. 23:24 But if you see my past LinkedIn posts and you comment on it and 23:25 you're like, hey, I love that. 23:29 Can I have five minutes of your time because your company's doing this thing 23:31 with this nonprofit? 23:35 Wow. 23:36 Yeah, you got five minutes of my time. 23:37 I'll call you when I'm working out. 23:39 Let's go. 23:40 And it works. 23:41 I'm sure Ximena and Mike will have different ways of gauging it, 23:42 so I'd love to hear them. 23:46 >> So I was thinking about how does someone get the interview before they've 23:50 spoken to a recruiter? 23:55 And I think that people might not always realize 23:56 how much the resume really does matter. 24:01 I've seen a huge variety of resumes, and I think that what a recruiter 24:05 really wants is to be able to easily find your information. 24:10 I think that the design of a resume matters a lot when you're hiring for 24:15 design type roles, because you also want to find the portfolio and 24:18 look through their portfolio and stuff like that. 24:22 But when you're hiring for maybe engineers or product managers, 24:25 finding information really quickly and easily is really important. 24:28 But you also don't want to be too verbose, right? 24:33 I'm sure people have heard this pretty often, but 24:35 unless you have maybe publications and a lot of years of experience, 24:39 really it shouldn't be longer than a page, maybe a page and a half. 24:43 So that resume matters a lot to what I'm seeing. 24:48 Some resumes also will come through that are all that instead of being 24:52 through Word or PDF, it's through like a some sort of text app, and 24:57 I don't and that can be really hard to read as well. 25:02 So I think like, I just really clearly want to be able to 25:05 figure out who we're gonna brief quickly. 25:09 So I would say like the resume actually does matter a lot. 25:13 And what's gonna stand out is guess what have you done before, 25:15 but if you are transitioning careers that might be a little bit around what types of 25:18 projects have you engaged or have you created. 25:23 What sorts of organizations are you working with? 25:25 And then also, again, like I had mentioned before, we're smaller so 25:29 we are looking for that flexibility, that factor. 25:33 So those are the things that are going to catch my eye that make it just easier for 25:35 me to say yes, I want to interview this person. 25:39 >> That on as well. 25:44 I definitely great resumes are super important and 25:45 I think of resumes and LinkedIn as equivalent. 25:49 And I'll give a little bit of a secret to the recruiting role to some folks in 25:53 this line. 25:58 Some ATS's, ATS is our applicant tracking systems. 25:58 This is what our recruiting teams use leverage to store resumes and 26:01 databases and applicants and referrals, etc. 26:06 Some ATS's are not the most user friendly. 26:09 And so what that also means is is simplicity for printing very important 26:12 because we have hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of resumes to review sometimes. 26:15 And so I also think having a built-out LinkedIn is super important, 26:20 cuz all you have to do is click on that LinkedIn link where it says, 26:23 trying to maybe find a resume and a difficult ATS. 26:27 LinkedIn as is as important as a resume, 26:30 and sometimes we have 30 seconds to reveal profile. 26:32 You got to return you sometimes pick are you gonna review that resume? 26:36 We'll give you a portfolio or you review a LinkedIn profile. 26:40 And so if you have a LinkedIn profile, have everything there, 26:43 with portfolio, a website, LinkedIn, etc. 26:47 And so, yes, resumes, 26:50 LinkedIn are essentially an introduction to who you are and that is very important. 26:51 The next is referrals to go along. 26:56 So, typically, 27:00 a lot of companies referrals have a different experience in applicants. 27:00 And not every company has the recruiting bandwidth to review every applicant and 27:04 close out with every applicant. 27:09 That I will find Netflix we do not have that bandwidth, and so 27:11 we do not follow up with people who apply to our roles. 27:14 We will follow up if we think that we wanna have a conversation with you. 27:17 I'm like, we will not close out with, as soon as we're not hit back. 27:20 I'll have the referrals have a different experience. 27:23 We should be following up with both the refer and the referral. 27:27 Whether you are a fit for the role, whether you're not fit in the role, 27:31 you might be a fit for the goal. 27:34 And so I would recommend try going the referral route but 27:35 having an authentic experience of that real route. 27:38 So we might not know someone in the company. 27:40 Get to know someone at the company before you ask for a referral. 27:43 Send with them a LinkedIn message, hey, can I still 15 minutes of 27:46 your time because I'm interested in this role because of X, Y and Z? 27:49 And this is also why I mentioned the real XY and Z. 27:52 Until ask for that 15 minutes but be compelling with that reach out as well 27:55 could help you get the introduction someone who works at a company. 27:59 And could help you get a referral to that company which will help you have a better 28:02 likelihood of hearing back from a recruiter. 28:07 >> Great. 28:12 So that being said, I've got the recruiters attention, 28:13 maybe they want to interview, or they can set me up with an interview. 28:17 What kind of interview questions really can be expected and like how can somebody 28:22 stand out If they have minimal or only a little bit of experience? 28:27 Okay, I, sorry, [INAUDIBLE] someone else to go first. 28:36 I highly, highly recommend practice talking about yourself. 28:40 I know it can be uncomfortable because most of the time you're taught, 28:46 not just necessarily talk about yourself too often. 28:49 Or when you're engaging with people, it's easier when they ask them questions in 28:51 order to keep a conversation going, or to meet someone for the first time. 28:55 In this case, you really want to practice being able to talk about yourself, 28:59 your accomplishments, your achievements, but 29:03 also be prepared to be asked about what we want. 29:06 What are you looking for in a company? 29:09 What are you looking for in a role? 29:11 Even the uncomfortable conversation around compensation. 29:13 Whether you want to talk about it or you don't, you should have something in 29:17 mind for yourself around, what do you want to make in your next role, right? 29:20 Look at levels.com, look at Glassdoor. 29:23 Look at those resources in order to find that information. 29:27 But you really have to be okay with talking about yourself, 29:29 diving into projects that you've worked on if you're transitioning careers. 29:33 A lot of times I asked people, so why did you decide to transition your career? 29:40 When I'm interviewing other recruiters, 29:45 because a lot of times people don't get into recruiting cuz they meant to. 29:47 A lot of times people fall into it, even ask why are we're recruiting 29:51 If you're a designer, why design, why engineering? 29:55 So I think you should be prepared to talk about yourself. 29:57 Practice with friends and family, 30:00 try to get recruiter calls at companies maybe that you're not super interested in, 30:01 just so that you can practice what those motions look like. 30:05 But, a lot of times we're asking questions about we start off with something maybe 30:08 pretty broad about walking us through your career and 30:13 then we really will dive into these specific areas. 30:16 And towards the end of the conversation, that's when we're asking a lot of 30:19 these questions that are a bit more focused on what's next. 30:23 The other big area that we tend to ask is around, 30:26 why did you decide to join a specific company and then why did you leave it? 30:29 Cuz ultimately, we're trying to understand how do you make decisions and 30:33 why will you choose to come to my company next? 30:36 >> One thing I will add is, when you're talking about yourself, 30:40 you got to be able to talk about the good, the bad, and the ugly. 30:44 So, I've messed up plenty of times, I probably mess up today something. 30:48 But, being able to talk about your mistakes and how you rebound and 30:54 how you learn from your mistakes and how you become a better employee, 30:59 person, because of where you've fallen short. 31:04 In such a way that the interviewer unconsciously is thinking, 31:08 they've pushed through, they get it done. 31:13 Yeah, they might mess up, but they have resilience and 31:16 they're able to accomplish things in the face of whatever happened. 31:19 So, sometimes people will talk about how they mess up, 31:24 they'll just blame it on somebody else, the other team messed up. 31:28 It wasn't on me, but all that matters to how people perceive your behaviors. 31:32 So, yeah, keep trying to be your best selves for sure. 31:38 >> I think this is a perfect, again, to throw in the three H's, 31:44 be humble, be honest, and be hungry. 31:47 >> [LAUGH] >> As somebody mentioned, 31:49 really talk about yourself of who you are and let that show through. 31:51 Honestly, interview questions are gonna range in every company. 31:54 Some have more fun, fluffy questions, some are gonna go just straight to the point. 31:57 And so, I think they can really make themselves more nervous and worked up for 32:02 the interview when you're trying to prepare for 32:06 every question that could possibly exist. 32:09 And so, just think about storytelling. 32:12 Who are you? 32:14 As Amanda mentioned, why multiple times and why it's so important? 32:15 Why you're interviewing here? 32:19 Why the culture? 32:20 Why do you leave the company? 32:21 What are you looking for next? 32:23 So I think the why is also super, super important as well. 32:24 >> Right, is there any like specific area of study or 32:31 specific languages that you recommend people study or focus on? 32:35 Something that you see that's just really hot right now, 32:41 that's just you see a lot of companies looking for? 32:45 >> SQL. 32:47 [LAUGH] >> SQL. 32:48 >> [LAUGH] >> I mean, from my perspective, 32:51 that's debatable. 32:54 [LAUGH] So I think this is a really great example of it depends, right? 32:55 Because different companies are gonna use different technologies. 33:01 And, the larger organization, not like Netflix, but maybe an Oracle might 33:06 still be using words like J2EE, which is a Java type framework of some sort. 33:11 I haven't seen that in a really long time, but 33:17 versus like newer companies might be using React and Vue on the frontend. 33:20 So I think it really depends on where that company is, 33:25 what they might be transitioning to. 33:28 When I first started recruiting, Angular was the biggest thing with frontend, and 33:30 now it's not so much anymore. 33:34 So, technology evolves so often that companies are going to be using 33:36 different technologies, depending on what they decide to use. 33:40 So, at this stage in their career, 33:44 I don't know if I would tell people to focus on any one language. 33:46 I would more think about what's important to your part of the stack 33:51 that's gonna matter, I guess. 33:55 So if you're a frontend versus a backend engineer, 33:58 right, more what are those languages and frameworks that matter versus 34:00 being a hardware engineer trying to learn Angular, it just doesn't make sense. 34:04 So, ultimately, the answers it depends, 34:08 I wouldn't focus too much on that until you like, yeah, I don't know. 34:12 I wouldn't focus too much on it right now. 34:18 >> I think I would try to be as language agnostic as you can. 34:24 Technology has changed and will continue to change. 34:30 Like Samantha mentioned, Angular used to be super hot in the frontend 34:34 JavaScript space, but now it's really React. 34:37 However, this is also the Bay Area in me talking. 34:39 I very much know various parts of the US are very Angular heavy. 34:42 Here in the Bay, I've seen it most to be very React heavy when it comes to 34:45 more of the frontend space. 34:49 And so, once again, technology changes year after year, but 34:50 also it depends on where you're located, what size of the company you work at. 34:54 And so, I think being language agnostics could be a good idea or 34:58 specializing in one, but have a side hobby, have a side project. 35:01 So maybe if you're a backend developer using Java, 35:05 how about you pick up some JavaScript in time. 35:08 That way you become more of a full stack oriented engineer, 35:10 that means you'd be able to be a more diverse engineer as well. 35:13 >> Cuz really as an engineer, you will constantly be learning. 35:19 You will always need to pick up a new framework or down the line, 35:23 a new language. 35:28 As an engineer, people will always be learning. 35:29 You will never or 35:31 almost never go to a company that has the exact same tech stack as the one prior. 35:32 There's always something new that's gonna need to be learned, and 35:37 that's also something recruiters understand. 35:40 Finding someone who has the exact tech stack that you're currently working with 35:42 is almost impossible. 35:46 So, realistically, as an engineer, you will always be learning. 35:47 This is just the beginning. 35:50 You might be learning a little bit more, but it's really never gonna stop, 35:53 which is exciting. 35:56 >> Also add, I agree, even some companies have internal frameworks that 35:58 are completely different than what your probably your specialization is. 36:02 Especially the larger FAANG companies have these really internal frameworks that 36:05 is custom built for them. 36:10 And so you're essentially always gonna be learning or changing technology. 36:12 >> Right, well, that kind of leads to this next question too. 36:17 So, if a candidate doesn't match all the job qualifications that a company is 36:20 looking for, can they still apply for the job? 36:25 I know we hear this a lot, apply anyway, apply anyway. 36:28 But, is that really a recommendation that you endorse? 36:30 Do you suggests people actually do that even if they don't have all the skills 36:34 the company's looking for, all the qualifications? 36:36 >> 100%, [LAUGH] I still lean on what I said before, which is, 36:42 nobody is gonna have the exact same tech stack as what you're looking for. 36:46 So, as a recruiter, what we do is we ask hiring managers, what is most critical? 36:51 Is it language specific that's most critical? 36:58 Is it a certain job responsibility that they're gonna have that's most important? 37:00 Which aspect of these responsibilities that we're putting on 37:06 the job description are actually most critical to us making a hire. 37:09 And so, that's it. 37:13 That's what we need to consider as recruiters when it comes to who we 37:15 interview, who we reach out to, how we guide people through the process. 37:18 How we even guide our interviewers and make sure that they're assessing on 37:22 the things that are actually important to us as an organization. 37:25 So, I would say, yes, even if you don't fit the job 37:28 description exactly, you should still apply. 37:32 I would say there should be some overlap, the role should still resonate with you, 37:36 but it's okay not to have every single skill set that's on there. 37:41 >> Yeah, I think this one the onus is one the hiring team, 37:48 the manager and the recruiter. 37:53 If I have a position that requires seven years to ten years of designing 37:57 experience, and you have three, it's gonna be tough for 38:01 you to be the design lead or senior designer at my company, right? 38:05 So maybe don't apply, right? 38:10 But I think if I'm doing my thing and I'm sourcing and I'm looking at people and 38:12 someone had applied with six years of experience at certain companies, 38:17 I will give them the time of day to see what is 38:22 it about them that made them want to apply, right? 38:24 It's not always black and white, because I think I do find diamonds in the rough or 38:28 people that have that, whether it's a culture add or 38:33 just something that makes them unique to the role. 38:37 I'm like, my gosh, like they weren't exactly fit experience-wise, 38:40 but wow, they blew us away in this thing or that way. 38:45 I mean, I'm gonna call him out, it depends. 38:49 But don't apply for stuff that you're grossly not qualified for it. 38:52 Have a surgical approach at where you're trying to apply for and 38:59 really hone in on those kinds of roles at different companies. 39:03 Yeah, it just depends. 39:08 >> I'm gonna give you all another a depends as well, but it truly depends. 39:11 >> [LAUGH] >> Especially around I think, 39:15 what are the qualifications for the role and years of experience, 39:18 which is where I really kind of, I try to push the boundaries. 39:22 As I've mentioned, there is a lot of learning and learning that we always 39:28 need to do, whether it's in recruiting and in the diversity space. 39:31 And one thing as well that I think a lot of folks need to unlearn is, years of 39:35 experience on a background doesn't really represent someone's experience. 39:38 Doesn't represent how hungry they are. 39:43 You could have three years of experience and be hungry as heck. 39:44 And you might show up better and 39:47 perform better than someone a couple years of experience than you. 39:48 And so, I think for me the qualifications are one thing, 39:50 the years of experience is truly situational, depending on who that 39:53 person is and how hungry or how much grit you have I think the next thing for 39:57 me which I am very passionate about is the women community. 40:02 There is data that shows that women do not apply to roles and at a larger percent, 40:06 I forget the number, 40:10 at a larger percent than men because they think they may not be a fit for a role. 40:11 Apply to the role, and [INAUDIBLE] the roll and 40:16 just we'll see kind of where it goes. 40:18 But I also agree, if you you know you're not the most steady, if you're missing 40:20 multiple things, it might not make the most sense, you might not hear back. 40:24 But if it's the few things you think you're missing, 40:28 I think you should shoot your shot. 40:31 I think that the percentage is 40 to 60% of women will not apply. 40:33 Man, I have six out of the ten things, and men will have three of 40:39 the ten things and, yeah, and they'll ask for top dollar. 40:44 It's like, God, so [LAUGH] sorry, there's a vent. 40:48 Yeah, that's a good point, Michael, for sure. 40:55 >> Yeah, no, that's a pretty popular statistic, I've heard it as well. 40:58 I was thinking that when I ask them question, 41:00 I was kind of thinking about how you hear that, women often times will not. 41:02 Just take that leap and try to apply just because they don't have all six out of 41:07 seven, or they really only have six out of seven qualifications. 41:11 So thank you, I appreciate your feedback on that. 41:14 And we got about ten minutes left, so I'm gonna go ahead and jump into the chat 41:18 here and see some of the q&a that we've had from our students, people joining us. 41:23 I'm gonna scroll up here to the top and it looks like the first one I see is from but 41:29 I think that we kind of answered that. 41:33 She was asking how imperative is it the candidates know a given coding language? 41:35 If not so much, what are key indicators of ability or 41:39 experience that recruiters look for? 41:42 I think you kind of covered that already. 41:44 So unless you have anything to add to that, 41:45 cuz I know you said it just don't really focus on one. 41:48 It was kind of the general consensus that you all seems to have in that area. 41:52 But if you wanna speak to that key indicators, okay, 41:57 somebody just have maybe they specialize and they've got React experienced and 42:02 they know some Go, but they don't know Java or something. 42:09 But otherwise, what would be a way that somebody would stand out? 42:14 Is there an ability or skill that you would look for 42:17 specifically that would be like, maybe I'll consider this person, 42:19 even though they maybe don't know this language. 42:24 What would make you think that a person has the ability to learn that language so 42:26 that you would give them the benefit of the doubt? 42:29 If that makes sense >> So, to be honest, 42:33 I think these are things that happen a little bit later in the process during 42:37 either technical screens prior to be on site. 42:42 Or maybe a technical screen during the on site more so 42:44 than a recruiter from screening. 42:48 It does go back a little bit to what is the team looking for. 42:50 So if recruiter is talking to someone who is experienced in React but 42:54 they need to code in go. 42:59 That recruiter should know on that initial call, 43:00 is Go a must have or is it a nice to have? 43:04 And so when you're talking to the candidate, 43:07 you can still explain to them that we are bringing in people of any language but 43:09 Go is something you're gonna need to learn later on. 43:13 And then when it comes to those technical screens, 43:17 making sure that your interviewers are ready to assess people on either 43:20 the language that they're proficient in or on other aspects of being an engineer. 43:24 Can they still problem solve? 43:29 How do they pseudo code this problem so get to an answer that we're looking for? 43:30 How does this person communicate with other engineers? 43:36 How do they communicate their thought process of how they're 43:39 ultimately probably solving this problem? 43:43 And then also feedback, whether it's entry level, mid level, junior, or 43:46 senior engineer. 43:50 One of the things that we're always looking for 43:52 is how does this person receive feedback and 43:54 then incorporate that into how they're gonna solve the problem going forward? 43:56 So there's definitely other things that you can look for that shows that 44:00 this person is gonna be a good engineer that is not super language specific. 44:04 >> Man, I love that and plus [INAUDIBLE]. 44:09 Still, we're technical recruiters and we have a technical background, but 44:13 I've been steady calm sigh, I didn't go to a boot camp, I'm not actually a student. 44:17 And so we need you to help us learn about you to so 44:20 we can essentially assess and [INAUDIBLE] to you. 44:24 One quick example is I was recruiting for a JavaScript UI role working out 44:28 some [INAUDIBLE] applications at Netflix, and a requirements for this team is React. 44:33 And we did not have the bandwidth to hire someone who didn't have React 44:39 experience [INAUDIBLE] current projects today. 44:44 I was interviewing the candidate, and 44:47 they did not have React experience professionally. 44:49 They had some react experience as a side hobby, they're building an app, 44:51 working on it. 44:55 However, we actually hired that person. 44:57 But the story that this person told me was, hey, when I started with this 44:59 company, I didn't have Angular experience, we learned in six months. 45:02 And so I'm confident that I can learn if I can start now in three to six 45:05 months to that. 45:09 And so because they share that story with me like, wow, they may not have had this 45:09 when they join their previous company, but they learned it in six months. 45:13 That really helps me show that, you know what? 45:16 They don't have it today, they've demonstrate they can adapt to learning 45:20 in a quick amount of time, then I need that kind of forward, we hire that person. 45:23 No joke, this person is the strongest React developer on that team. 45:27 And so I think it really goes to show you, you might not have the experience to 45:32 demonstrate your past experience, but how hungry are you to learn? 45:35 >> I love that. 45:41 And how do you demonstrate that you are adaptable? 45:42 You use that word specifically, and I think that's a really good term. 45:45 Thank you so much, yeah. 45:49 So let me go ahead and continue to scroll. 45:52 Questions for you, Enrique. 45:55 Erica is asking, how do you stay humble when 45:56 you're trying to showcase your best self to the recruiter? 45:59 [LAUGH] And there's [INAUDIBLE] because you're the first one to bring it up. 46:04 >> Yeah, I mean, I just think you, I don't know, 46:10 I just just gotta not think the way you come off, 46:15 how you talk about yourself. 46:19 And I kind of struggle with this, Ember. 46:22 I got a job at Nike back in the day and 46:27 the interviewer at the end of it is like hey man, can I give you some feedback? 46:30 And I'm like, no, feedback on the call with this director? 46:35 And he was like, sure, crying. 46:40 And he said, Elke, the person on the other line happen to be LGBTQ bipoc person. 46:43 And they said hey, I could tell that you have done really great work, 46:50 did a lot of good things, give yourself credit. 46:56 You don't need to talk, it was a privilege to do this, it was an honor to do that. 47:00 He says people of color and women tend to talk about themselves as, my gosh, 47:06 we were able to be put in a position to do, you gave yourself credit. 47:11 So talk about how you executed things, how you did the programs, 47:15 how you lead the initiatives. 47:19 And that always stuck with me, so 47:21 I tried in my own way to kinda have that positive posture for myself. 47:24 I try to think about how I would teach my son to talk about himself. 47:29 But you also can't come off as your hot 47:33 stuff cocky bravado, it just turns off. 47:38 So I think being able to engage in a positive manner about yourself, 47:43 that comes off as humble for me. 47:48 >> So I'll definitely double down on what Enrique was saying about, 47:51 I'm thinking specifically the language that women use. 47:55 A lot of times women are more likely to use the language when really they mean I. 47:58 I even noticed this the last time that I was interviewing, 48:05 which when you're the only recruiter, why are you saying we? 48:09 Why did I say we? 48:13 Why do I use that language when really there was no one else? 48:14 It was just me. 48:16 So [LAUGH] women really use we versus I. 48:18 And that's also something that has to do with us training interviewers around being 48:22 conscious around that kind of language and just asking, you mentioned we, but 48:26 who specifically worked on that project? 48:30 Anyway, so that's a little bit of a side note to how to be humble in an interview. 48:32 But that is something that's really important when you're thinking about your 48:37 language in an interview and how to really highlight yourself. 48:40 One of the things that I look for 48:43 when it comes to someone who's humble is actually how they talk about other people. 48:44 And I think Enrique had mentioned this before, which is how do you 48:49 interact with your other employees and people that you work with? 48:53 Are you putting them down, or are you taking ownership over what went right, 48:58 what went wrong? 49:02 So I think how you talk about other people at your 49:03 organization actually really matters a lot to showing humble self awareness as well. 49:06 And of course, I think we all have some interesting antidotes where somebody was 49:11 humble and I don't necessarily want to share them now. 49:14 But it can be pretty obvious around who's gonna be a good fit for your organization. 49:17 And that can also really come down to values fit for your team as well as, 49:22 is this person gonna be self aware of what they bring to the table and 49:26 what they have to continue to learn? 49:30 >> I'll say I agree with everything. 49:35 I think there's a fine line between remaining humble but 49:37 also remaining confident in your work as well. 49:41 So just like the we, so many mention I, but it's definitely tricky but 49:45 I think that one is a compliment versus competence, well. 49:50 >> Well, you know what? 49:55 Actually, we have hit time now. 49:56 I know we had a couple more Q&A questions and I'm sorry, 49:58 we're not able to get to those. 50:01 It's just been so much good conversation today and a lot of the questions, 50:03 and you all have had some great answers. 50:06 At this time, we're gonna go ahead and start our networking hour. 50:08 Hopping makes networking super simple for all of you attendees, it's super easy. 50:12 Here's how it works. 50:15 You click on the networking link on the left side of the screen. 50:17 Turn on your camera and microphone so people can see and hear you. 50:20 You will be randomly paired with another person, and 50:24 you'll have three minutes to chat. 50:26 If you decide you wanna stay in touch with that person, 50:27 you can click the Connect button. 50:29 And if they also decide to share their information with you, 50:31 then you're both connected. 50:33 And don't worry, if you decide not to share your information or 50:35 you don't feel comfortable, the other person know during the session, and so 50:37 there's no awkwardness there, all right? 50:41 You can leave the video call at any time, although we hope this doesn't happen. 50:43 If someone acts inappropriate, please do make sure you flag them and 50:47 we'll be notified and take action on that. 50:50 So we want everybody to be comfortable, [INAUDIBLE] the safe space. 50:52 So thank you all so much. 50:56 I really appreciate you all showing up. 50:58 You've had some great answers to these questions. 51:00 Some of them are hard. 51:02 So thanks so much for being here today. 51:02 >> Thank you, Amber. 51:05 >> Thanks for having us. 51:05 >> Pleasure that we've shared the state of everyone. 51:07 >> Have a good one. 51:10 >> Likewise. 51:10 >> Bye. >> See ya. 51:11

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