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Designing for Trans and Gender Non-Conforming Folks with Max Masure and Madelena Mak
46:29 with TreehouseThis talk will address key questions regarding how to make products, interfaces, and experiences more inclusive to Trans and Gender Non-conforming (TGNC) folks.
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[MUSIC]
0:00
Hello, everyone, I'm Ryan Carson,
the co founder and CEO of treehouse.
0:04
I'd like to welcome up our next
speakers Max Measure and Madalena Mac.
0:10
Max is a design strategist,
author, and coach.
0:15
They believe in ethics.
0:19
The knee and
liberation of under the cities and
0:20
regularly talk about trans inclusion,
0:26
inner power, ethics, and trends.
0:30
It's part of their culture, welcome, Max.
0:34
>> Madelena is a UX product designer and
director with 15 years of experience.
0:37
She is currently the senior director at
Startup Bus and is available for UX and
0:44
product design gigs, collaborations and
speaking opportunities.
0:48
She has designed popular and acclaimed
products for communications, healthcare.
0:52
In advertising, she advocates for
Transgender Equality by organizing
0:58
with start out and
speaking events such as Code for America.
1:03
Everyone, welcome Max and natalina.
1:07
>> Awesome.
1:12
Hi, everyone.
1:13
Before we start things, I created
a poll for us in the tab on the right.
1:15
You can see Where the chat is,
there I suppose,
1:21
and in the polls that is visible for now.
1:24
You can tell us how comfortable or
uncomfortable you feel around
1:27
designing for trans non binary and
gender non conforming folks.
1:32
And take the time to do that and
I'm gonna.
1:38
Get us kick off with the rest.
1:45
Okay, and then I think I can-
>> All right,
1:53
okay, I can stop sharing.
1:57
>> Okay, so the first step I wanted
to do is to say hi in the chat and
2:04
showing your name and pronouns,
and I had a slide for that.
2:08
It says my name is and I use the pronouns.
2:12
o my name is Max, and
I use the problems data.
2:16
And if you could practice that in
a chat for me, that would be amazing.
2:22
So put your name and
your pronouns in the chat.
2:25
Thank you.
2:28
Thank you for BSU you did it.
2:29
Hi my friend Vera, he's just some awesome.
2:32
I like to see other people using them.
2:39
Yes, yes, yes.
2:41
And yes, B is right pronouns and
the name and that's the best practice.
2:47
I feel we should all try to do that
otherwise our problems failed.
2:52
But, my habit now is really to put my
pronouns in my first name everywhere.
2:58
And so that's something we
can start practicing already.
3:03
I have the slides for the bright space if
you want to put that up at the dinner,
3:08
>> Okay, you want me to show it.
3:14
>> Yeah.
3:17
All right.
3:18
Okay, so I want to introduce that
concept of brave, brave space so
3:20
we some some of us might have
heard about the safe space.
3:24
So brave space is one
level higher where we all,
3:28
we expect to be to feel uncomfortable.
3:32
By accessing new, new materials.
3:37
And you can that we might have
not been aware, until now.
3:40
So it's okay to be uncomfortable.
3:45
This is how we grow.
3:47
A brave space is a space where
we can make mistakes and
3:49
they actually welcomes, Medina ally.
3:53
We sign up to be, teachers around that
topic of trans and non binary folks.
3:56
So this is the.
4:01
This is the place to ask questions and
to really be uncomfortable with some
4:01
elements we don't know yet and we're
here to guide you and answer questions.
4:06
And that goes with the last one which
is like we have to learn and listen.
4:11
So that's something we need to do
clearly is to ask questions here.
4:15
Session and we're going to try to
answer them either in the moments or
4:22
at the end if we have enough time.
4:27
So now I want to just quick exercise
before going through all the content.
4:31
I would like to If you can to have a piece
of paper, I use my sticky notes and
4:37
a pen, and
it's gonna take like just two minutes.
4:43
So what I wanted to do is if
you are right ended use your
4:48
left-handed, so
that you're not doing a pants and
4:53
if you're left-handed news or
rights, hands.
4:57
So use your non-dominant hands and
on the piece of paper,
5:02
write your name with the left and
if you're a righty and vice versa.
5:06
So I'm gonna do it with you
when I show you what I have.
5:10
>> Okay, So
5:15
that's my name written
with my non-dominant hand.
5:19
Tell me the chats by using
your non-dominant hand,
5:25
how it felt to write your name
with your non-dominant hand.
5:29
For me sense flow and
I don't know if anyone else felt that.
5:36
Inefficient like a child, very awkward,
super boring, uncomfortable.
5:42
Yeah, I hear you.
5:47
And very slow, right?
5:50
Yes.
5:51
And it doesn't feel natural.
5:52
Like we have to think
about it the whole time.
5:54
Right.
5:56
Okay.
5:58
Now I want you to do the same
exercise by using your dominant hand,
5:59
the hand you usually use.
6:02
And if you, some of you
are ambidextrous and using both,
6:04
you might have put
something in front from us.
6:07
So now I'm missing my donut and
6:11
that's with faster and
6:15
sane can tell me what it felt familiar.
6:18
Yes, for me,
I can feel it in the way I wrote that.
6:24
It's my dominant hand and
is feeling stronger.
6:28
The way it's written is stronger like and
I see like people in 3D natural faster.
6:32
[LAUGH] Justin said but
sadly looks the same well,
6:39
we all have our own handwriting ways and
chief said that
6:43
the right fence efficient way
the lead that choppy choppy.
6:48
>> Yes.
6:54
>> Feels like he is familiar.
6:54
>> Yes.
6:56
>> And so that's the metaphor I used when
I came out as a trans person to my mom.
6:57
It For Me The day I wrote this and
that I was trans felt
7:04
as if I was finally using my
hands to live my life and
7:09
for like,
34 years I was using the wrong hand.
7:14
So that's what I use for my mom
especially cuz my mom is a righty but
7:20
she was she's actually a lefty.
7:25
And she was born in the 50s and
7:28
she was forced to use her right hand and
not the left.
7:30
So all her life she has been imbalanced
and not being in her inner power.
7:35
She was always forced
to use the wrong hand.
7:40
And that's something I'd like to
use because I know understanding,
7:43
trans, identities can feel very hard and
that's tracked.
7:49
And I wanted to, for me, the feeling
of like, being not at ease, and finally
7:54
being strong, and so that's yeah, that
was just an introduction for the topic.
7:59
We're gonna talk today about why
we should design for trans and
8:05
gender non conforming folks,
and then I'm gonna, Medina.
8:10
Lead, the next text session section.
8:16
>> All right.
8:21
Passing the mic over to me right next.
8:22
All right, here we go.
8:25
So, yeah.
8:26
So now that the metaphor is
the third powerful metaphor that
8:28
max has just given to all of us, right?
8:33
When we use a wrong hand,
it doesn't feel intuitive.
8:36
It feels everything feels unfamiliar.
8:40
It feels like everything in this
world is not designed for you.
8:42
It's like the mouse here,
it's like, only for right hand.
8:45
If you use a left hand you need to
buy a specific mouse for yourself.
8:49
And for the next part of this session,
I want to give you a little presentation.
8:54
On what it feels like to
live as a transgender and
9:01
our non gender non conforming person.
9:05
So here a little bit of slides, and
let's go right I'm sharing my screen.
9:09
All right, I hope everyone can see my
screen and Max, let me know if you can.
9:18
If you cannot see my screen, let me know.
9:22
All right.
9:24
>> Yeah, I can.
9:25
>> That's right, let's go.
9:27
Why should you design for
transgender and non conforming folks?
9:29
Well, let's take a look
at the big pictures in
9:34
terms of the world of design first.
9:37
So In the world of data everything
is like automatically generated,
9:40
artificial intelligence is
the biggest buzzword right now.
9:46
And that's the new reality
of computational design.
9:52
But after the past couple years.
9:56
We also realize that it fails
on the F text front too easily.
9:59
That is way too easy to find, right?
10:05
Like news feeds that promotes like fake
news, like right sharing companies that
10:08
is psychologically and socially
economically like exploiting the workers.
10:13
And also like virtual home assistance
like perpetuating negative like gender
10:18
stereotypes.
10:23
So there are many examples there,
that is we are not aware of it.
10:24
We just keep relying on algorithms and
data, and
10:30
that's why the new reality is we need to
be more ethical in our design practice.
10:34
A lot of our so
10:42
called data-driven design is basically
biased towards advertising dollars.
10:43
It's kind of depressing when we
as designer when we do AB tests,
10:48
when we test things
phase on impression and
10:53
clicks on marketing like in
terms of a conversion funnel.
10:56
We're essentially using the brightest
minds of our generation to make sure
11:00
people click ads.
11:04
And that shouldn't be the reality,
we can definitely do better as humanity,
11:06
as a group of designers.
11:10
We have the power to make changes.
11:12
And like just another day, right,
I went on [LAUGH] a search engine
11:14
just to see what autocomplete I
can get from the word transgender.
11:19
So I just typed is transgender, right?
11:24
On the left is Google,
on the right is Bing.
11:27
On the left,
I mean the autocomplete results
11:29
half of it is kind of
[LAUGH] hurting to read, and
11:34
on the right is actually
downright terrible
11:39
life like what other people are typing for
11:44
the question for the search engine.
11:48
And that's like the guy doing
a facepalm on his forehead because
11:53
when we totally rely on data and
do not have any intervention.
11:59
Humans, what happens is this, we end
up making really terrible mistakes that
12:05
discriminates groups that people might
not realize and that's a real bad thing.
12:11
And the marketing today we still
depend antiquated practice like
12:18
segmenting audiences by gender, right?
12:22
Like the famous pink text, right,
this shampoo conditioner product for
12:25
women is somehow more
expensive than products for
12:31
men just because it's in a pink color.
12:36
Which is rather unsettling
because not all people who
12:39
identify as women think pink
represents them as a color.
12:43
And when you look at the median
weekly earnings, right,
12:49
between men and women, right,
in the whole entire range
12:54
of different education level,
men earns more than women.
12:59
And actually, if you realize in those
two examples is in the gender binary,
13:04
we didn't even have data for
anyone who is gender non-binary or
13:09
transgender, everyone that
is on the gender spectrum.
13:14
In 2015 US transgender survey,
13:18
when you look at this chart,
what you realize is for
13:22
the majority of the transgender
population in the United States
13:27
from no income to $100,000 in income.
13:33
The people who identifies as
transgender earn significantly
13:38
less than the rest of the population and
the gender binary.
13:43
And in the US, EU, Canada,
in the population in the Western world,
13:50
about 0.5% of us
identifies as transgender.
13:55
That sounds like a very small percentage.
14:00
But when you actually multiply
it by the world's population,
14:03
they're actually more than
3 million people of us.
14:07
And when there are many things
that we're designing right now is
14:11
not just affecting millions of people,
but billions of people.
14:15
Like a giant conglomerate like Facebook,
right?
14:20
It claims to have two billion users and
14:23
not even 1% of two billion
people is millions of people.
14:26
It's about actually 20 million people.
14:31
And if we don't consider these kinds of
edge cases, we end up really ignoring
14:34
millions of millions of people and
those are the people at the margins and
14:40
we cannot afford to ignore them and
ignore their needs.
14:45
So for the last time that I was talking
about designing for transgender and
14:50
gender nonconforming folks, I did a little
bit of life experience mapping for
14:55
myself for my own transgender journey.
15:00
As you can see, it's like from
the very beginning when I realized my
15:03
gender identity to all the way
to currently actualizing myself,
15:08
there were lots of ups and downs.
15:13
And I can show you what
kind of things that
15:16
is definitely affecting me
very negatively, right?
15:19
There are many, many things actually.
15:24
So first of all,
some practical example, right?
15:27
Like when you're designing a product,
some of us have to deal with like extra
15:30
discrimination just by wearing a dress
like because like it has a belt clip.
15:36
And when we talk on stage,
I don't wear a belt,
15:41
then I can't really use this product,
right?
15:44
Something as normal as
like going to a bar.
15:48
Well now we can't but
when we go to a bar at night, and
15:51
someone's had to do ID check, and
we have to put our driver's license and
15:55
the security person have
to look at my face.
15:59
And look at the ID and realize,
what's up with the gender?
16:02
Well, actually,
usually they don't do that.
16:06
Most of the bouncers that I've met in my
life are actually very nice still but
16:09
still, right?
16:14
I have to deal with even like for
Monday interactions like at a Starbucks.
16:15
You're not sure what kind of
pronouns they need to say.
16:20
When they can just say hello and
good morning,
16:24
they somehow still need to use
the pronoun for some reason.
16:27
And of course, right,
when you talk about driver's license,
16:30
when you have to apply for anything that
is feels slightly more adult, right?
16:34
Everything like say a health care plan,
you'll have to enter these
16:38
checkboxes of just rather you're M or
F, like where are the other options?
16:43
Well beyond the things that
are official at Delhi,
16:49
the love app or dating apps, right?
16:54
Even though it has the option these days,
sometimes you can say you're man,
16:58
women or more, and you can type anything
and you realize once after you log in,
17:04
everything that you can browse
is still on on a gender binary?
17:09
You got either social man or social woman.
17:14
So dating apps is kind of like every
time I open, it as feels kind of awful.
17:17
When every time you post on the internet
when people cannot see your face and
17:22
when you post something cool,
like say on Reddit, right?
17:26
Everybody assumes that I'm a male person
because the entire Reddit is like
17:30
75% male and so every cool things
must be done by men for some reason.
17:35
And even more so, right, you're like in
a professional setting and you have to
17:41
pretend everything is fine and dandy even
though you're actually in great pain.
17:46
And in Facebook,
like pry only lasts a month.
17:51
They give a pry icon that can
affect billions of people and
17:53
after pry month,
they just remove the prompting.
17:56
And queer coding, like Disney
movies back then whenever you have
18:00
queer character even these days, right?
18:04
Like you only have like half a second of
two lesbian person kissing in Star Wars
18:07
and that's the entire representation
in the entire series of nine movies.
18:12
And they're all portrayed as other people.
18:17
They're like villains, like people,
they're equating queerness with violence.
18:21
And of course so I like trans or
18:27
gender nonconforming people always
feel like they are disposables.
18:28
So like even in the latest
like say Star Trek series,
18:32
somehow all the people that are not
in the gender binary like one of
18:36
the partner has to die for
some reason because to the writers,
18:40
they are easy to manipulate and
thus disposable.
18:45
And last but not the least, so
even as a transgender person myself,
18:49
I'm prone to make mistakes.
18:55
And actually that's one big mistake that
I actually learned during the process of
18:57
organizing one of the years in StartupBus
where we have women plus, right?
19:04
It's strictly women and transgender and
19:10
gender nonconforming folks in
Blockchain Bus and for a whole time,
19:14
I thought I was simply assumed that
I was included in on this bus.
19:19
But it's only halfway through the journey
I had a rude awakening that actually
19:25
people don't understand what the plus sign
really means right next to the word women.
19:29
And that's why I realized the safe space
is actually not very safe to me and
19:36
it's painful because I designed the safe
space that end up is actually unsafe
19:40
to me and that's when I realized
that I need to reassert my power.
19:45
And actually I need to learn how to
listen not just the needs of myself but
19:50
also needs to listen to the needs
of all underprivileged folks.
19:55
So discrimination After all
the examples that you've seen just now,
19:59
it feels like death by a thousand cuts.
20:05
And it's like mental health issues,
lack of recognition by law,
20:07
harassment and
discrimination from working environments,
20:13
and higher than average poverty,
and higher rates of violence.
20:18
And 7% of people in the 2015 US
20:24
transgender survey responded that they
20:28
attempted suicide in the year before then.
20:33
And that's nearly 12 times the rate of
attempted suicide in the US population.
20:39
And this is not the entire list, but
20:45
these folks are people who
were murdered by other people,
20:49
and these folks identify as transgender or
20:56
non-conforming people.
21:01
And these are the people who
are killed just this year.
21:05
And we need to recognize that, one,
21:10
we are not recognized as people,
we are marginalized,
21:13
we are stigmatized, and
we are criminalized in our own country.
21:18
We end up not being helped by people
that are supposed to be helping us.
21:25
When we look for help in fear,
to look for police to look for help,
21:30
they turn away and we have to deal with
the face of violence everyday ourselves.
21:35
We shall be seen, be heard,
be respected, be safe from harm, and
21:46
be treated equally with the same
opportunities as others.
21:50
So that's the least you can do as
a designer, is to make us be seen,
21:55
make us be heard, and be respected, right?
22:01
Even though if it's just a checkbox for
when you need to
22:05
pick gender in an app,
that increases our exposure.
22:10
That let's people know that gender is
beyond just a binary of male and female.
22:15
An ethical design in my opinion,
not computational design,
22:24
is the true purpose and
the future of design.
22:29
It's important that we be able
to mass produce things and
22:35
create things that serve the needs
of the majority of the population.
22:42
As designers,
empathic people who get in touch with
22:50
other humans when they
do their user research.
22:55
We are responsible to represent our
user represent all kinds of people
23:00
that we meet when we design
our user experiences.
23:05
This is called the Copenhagen letter.
23:11
And is the letter that is
signed by multiple designers
23:13
in the design community across the world.
23:19
And is for us to pledge out to be
23:24
serving the needs for the greater good.
23:29
So we are a community that exerts great
influence and we must protect and
23:37
nurture the potential to do good with it.
23:41
Designing for transgender and gender
non-conforming folks opens up our society
23:46
from the gender binary and frees us from
the harm that has been caused by it.
23:51
So that's why we need to design for
transgender and
23:57
gender non-conforming folks.
24:00
So now that you understand
why that we need to do that.
24:03
Yeah, Mike.
24:08
>> I want to add that in that court,
that last sentence,
24:10
the slide you had right after that.
24:17
That gender binary doesn't only hurt
trans people, it hurts all of us.
24:22
Cisgender people, transgender people,
everyone having expectations for gender.
24:28
And that's like when we say,
24:34
opens up our society from
the gender binary and frees us.
24:36
And for me, that means everyone,
not just trans folks.
24:41
Yeah, sorry, I just needed to add to that.
24:47
>> Yeah, when we're designers
what we realize that even a very
24:51
small tiny detail, they are the external
representation of our beliefs, right?
24:56
Of our views and values of our world.
25:04
And this design will outlive us.
25:08
So we need to be careful when we design
any products and any details within it.
25:10
So, right?
25:19
With that said, there's some design best
practices for you to learn about, right?
25:20
Some very easy steps that you can do
to help us to be seen and be heard.
25:27
So first of all, let's start small,
one step at a time,
25:36
we don't need to be thinking
about changing the world, right?
25:39
In the very first second.
25:44
There are very small things that we can
do each as a designer as visuals to
25:45
help transgender and
gender non-conforming folks.
25:50
First of all, that's not right,
as we've seen it before,
25:55
and there's the gender binary,
male or female.
26:01
First thing,
our recommendation is don't ask, right?
26:05
If you tell me to know what agenda
needs to be in an app, right?
26:11
In the entire process of using the app or
the website,
26:16
we actually don't need to
know about the gender.
26:20
Don't what else about that.
26:24
Because when you do that,
you end up portraying the gender binary.
26:25
And even if you do, right?
26:31
Have a good reason for asking and
26:33
respectfully treat it like
sensitive information.
26:35
So this is one example, right?
26:39
In the form, that is still the binary,
very unfortunately.
26:41
But they give us at
least some information.
26:47
This is one, medical.
26:51
That's one of the many ways
that we use this information,
26:53
is in communicating your
insurance provider.
26:57
So unfortunately, the insurance provider
only use also just male and female.
27:01
And as a result, they had to do the same.
27:06
At the end, they still reassure that we
are committed to making sure every member
27:11
feel safe, welcome, and respected.
27:15
And if you really have to collegiate,
27:21
just try to think about if
there's a way to make it right?
27:24
Or make it have multiple options.
27:29
You can have the option to say
check whether you're female, male.
27:32
Or you can choose rather not say, or you
can enter custom anything that you want.
27:39
And sometimes for
user interface, especially for
27:46
a social network where you need
to refer to another person
27:51
with a pronoun, you can ask for
pronouns instead, right?
27:56
Just like our we started our session
instead of asking for gender information,
28:01
right?
28:06
Because what you ultimately need to
ask for that reason is that you want
28:07
to construct those sentences
in a use case with pronouns.
28:11
So, yeah, ask for pronoun, right?
28:15
Whether it's he/him, she/her,
they/them, or enter your own.
28:21
And also be ready for a complex answer.
28:25
So be ready that,
28:28
people can have like many different
terms that as you type, right?
28:30
And they also can type something custom.
28:34
And the autocomplete let's you
really lock up different kind of
28:38
labels from different cultures.
28:43
This is an example on Facebook.
28:49
And also,
when you put the general field in a form,
28:54
consider the ramifications, right?
28:58
So this is one example in the OkCupid app,
right?
29:02
Wow, it's so nice that OkCupid have,
you can choose what kind
29:07
of orientation you are,
you can actually check multiple of them.
29:12
You have an entire tagcloud that you can
really express your gender fluidity.
29:18
So you click Save, right?
29:26
And then right after is include
me in searches of just men and
29:29
women, once again.
29:34
So they let users choose one or
more genders.
29:36
And yet, they'll in the end have to
identify with one gender in the binary.
29:41
So how is that supposed to help?
29:47
If they cannot really do
the entire system well,
29:51
accept the fact either and
improve the system or don't ask.
29:54
So, avoid assumptions based on gender and
designing for
30:00
diversity, it results in
a better design for all.
30:05
This is on a bathroom and
it's sort of interesting
30:09
because we are converting everything
to gender neutral bathrooms.
30:13
And it's good that
the creativity of people,
30:18
like transforming the power of words by
all the different variations of sign.
30:21
So yeah, lastly, I'd want to say yeah,
you are a designer,
30:27
you were given the power to make visible
tangible changes in the world and
30:31
use your power and use it wisely.
30:36
Okay, good.
30:38
And for my leather journey
of creating safe spaces for
30:40
transgender folks, back to StartupBus
that still said women bus,
30:46
but on the second day I
bought some duct tape and
30:52
I put the word T GNC
underneath on the bus.
30:57
So, thank you very much.
31:01
And be prepared to fight for your rights.
31:04
Everything that serves many
people is inherently political.
31:07
And so, if anyone who opposes what
you're trying to do when you design
31:12
something that is for the greater good,
be prepared for fight for it.
31:17
Don't be prepared to push back because you
know that you're doing something right.
31:23
So thank you.
31:28
All right, what's next Max?
31:29
[LAUGH]
>> I have a last piece about ethics and
31:32
responsibility.
31:35
You can continue sharing.
31:38
>> All right.
31:39
>> Thank you by the way,
31:41
I always feel a lot like I know this
talk we've done multiple times,
31:43
but it's always like going
back through all the data.
31:48
We know why we do it and
why we should do more efforts to bring
31:53
inclusion overall,
not just even trans inclusion.
31:58
With the data,
like we have fault to share.
32:02
I saw some people in the chat and
32:08
we are like,
I didn't know that's like big eye opener.
32:10
>> Okay, so.-
>> So,
32:14
back to my [CROSSTALK]
>> Every time I've presented it
32:18
does feel very emotional because it
really goes through all the emotions.
32:22
>> Yeah, I mean every time we do
that talk as being trans persons,
32:27
it takes a lot of emotional energy.
32:31
>> Yeah,
it takes a lot of spiritual energy, yeah.
32:35
>> Yeah, every time we have to
take the rest of the day like,
32:38
okay we've done like we said, the
suffering and why we need to do better.
32:41
So, it was like less stressful but
rest is part of the revolution, right?
32:46
So, we need to rest for
the next time we're gonna share.
32:53
So, what I wanted to close with is
that we are responsible as designers,
32:58
as engineer we can go to the next.
33:07
Thank you.
33:11
Well, we are responsible when
the products we launch harm some people.
33:12
And I don't think that's
something we learn at school.
33:18
That is definitely not
something we've been trained,
33:21
working in corporations, and
working in tech startups.
33:25
This is not what we've been trained with.
33:30
And I think this is where it has to stop.
33:34
It has to be really ethical, has to be
part of the school, it has to be proud
33:36
of the way we make decisions, and
why we decide to build a product.
33:41
I just can't stop rolling my eyes
every time I see as for the mirror,
33:46
workout mirror for
the world with cutting costs like 1500.
33:51
I can't,
like now this is what you want to build.
33:56
Like for me I see all the people
in need of actual better lives,
33:59
better ways of accessing housing,
accessing foods.
34:03
And a bunch of people and investors
decided to spend a lot of time on your
34:07
resources to build a mirror so
people can work out a home.
34:11
And that's not how it should be.
34:13
We should first care for
the people who are in dire needs
34:16
before we extend to like,
make wealthy lives even better.
34:21
So, I hear some, when I talk
about that with some designers,
34:26
we're peers that we can't change.
34:31
Yeah, you can go to the next level.
34:36
We can't change, this is so hard,
like this is how the world is, and
34:38
I think that if 2020 taught us something,
is that we can shape new systems.
34:43
We are doing it now.
34:50
The way this year has brought a new
president elect is because we
34:52
moved ourselves,
we made some commitments with morality
34:57
because a lot of people were
available because of being at home.
35:01
We were paying more attention
of the politics and it works.
35:06
And it seems impossible and
I think that's how it's designed as well.
35:11
That if you think you can change
something in the system at work or
35:16
novel system in government,
35:21
that is designed to make it feel
like it's impossible to do.
35:23
I remember when AOC got elected and
35:28
how suddenly stuff started to be doable.
35:32
It's like, this is what I think about
design and ethical, intrusive design.
35:36
Like we can shape new systems.
35:42
As designers, developers,
we are the one making things.
35:44
And the investors and the CEO's
are following what is gonna work.
35:48
And if they don't think doing ethical
design will make them money they
35:54
won't do it.
35:58
And I think there's a way
to start by doing us,
35:59
by being more advocating for
inclusion in the way we do things.
36:03
I see that my audio is breaking up.
36:09
Let me stop my video and see that helps.
36:12
Sorry about that.
36:15
So, wevcan go to the next one now.
36:18
And one example I like to talk about and
I talked about it for
36:24
a while and now it's actually out
in the world is the words Citi.
36:28
The bank Citi launched the project about
allowing trans non binary folks to get
36:34
their name to have the name they want
the name they use on their credit cards.
36:39
And I was like two or three years ago,
I was fine with Lucas Krieger,
36:45
was the one who came
up with that campaign.
36:50
And I remember having coffee with him and
how he was like, hey, you know what?
36:53
I have this campaign I'm gonna
try to pitch to MasterCard.
36:56
And we talked about that,
it was two, three years ago.
37:00
And now, and I know a lot of
people who work on that project,
37:02
even the photographer,
an eatery took the pictures for those ads.
37:05
I know the person on the left, a friend.
37:09
And it's like this is possible.
37:11
And the more projects we
decide to start in our teams,
37:15
in our offices,
in our projects that are targeted for
37:20
under respected population, underserved.
37:25
The more we're going to
see them in our city.
37:29
Like now we launched the true
name campaign with Mastercard.
37:33
So now, it's becoming like a value for
banks, and more banks gonna want to do
37:36
the same thing because it becomes
like a service for the audience.
37:41
And I write that Citi after they launched
this campaign just a few weeks ago, they
37:46
already have 16 under people who requested
to change their name on their credit card.
37:50
And we know as trans people,
37:55
I had my own issues with my correct name
on my credit card for a long time and
37:57
how that was putting me in danger
of being outed as a trans person.
38:03
And I'm white and I'm a transmasculine
person, so I'm not at the most risk.
38:09
A black trans woman who doesn't have
an ID that reflects the name she uses is
38:13
like literally could be a cause of death.
38:18
So, I think we have more power
in our hands as being designers,
38:22
engineer making things out in the world.
38:27
And I wanted to, if you can move
to the next slide Magdalena.
38:31
So, there is one thing that
I keep questioning myself
38:36
when I work on projects and
at the beginning, during,
38:40
and the end,
when I include new partners new teams,
38:44
like does our product support or
how vulnerable groups?
38:49
And I don't think that's
something we ask ourselves enough.
38:53
Especially for projects with startups
who are just here to disrupt,
38:59
earn big and make more and more.
39:03
Why are we doing this?
39:06
And on the next slide Magdalena,
39:08
I like to share a few questions that could
39:12
be added to the list of checklists.
39:17
So, we need to focus on the impact and
not just the intention.
39:22
It's like whatever we create gonna
impact people in their real lives.
39:28
And so, we have to think about what's
gonna happen in terms of resources?
39:33
Someone who doesn't have enough time,
money or information, or even access.
39:38
I think it's something that it took me
a long time to really stop having my
39:44
assumption that everyone has an iPhone and
a high speed Internet.
39:47
I'm totally away from that when I was
starting to work with startups 10 years
39:52
ago, like What is it technology
that people actually access?
39:56
Are we just gonna lose people that
could benefit from our tool and
40:00
product, if you have to depend on a very
good Wi-Fi or a very good LTE phone?
40:06
And what about if they can't go
to where you need them to go and
40:13
the transportation to go to where
you can access the project?
40:18
If it's food stamps, if it's a system and
people have to take the bus but
40:24
they don't have the money to take the bus.
40:28
You're the whole infrastructure of,
do we harm or do we support?
40:30
These are pretty around everything
that we can think of and
40:35
sent for
the cross training around discrimination.
40:38
I can't stop thinking of Uber.
40:41
That it took a long time for
them to add pronouns.
40:44
I think they have pronouns now in the app,
but
40:46
they still had a lot of trans folks being
harassed and violence against them.
40:49
In a car with an Uber driver and
that's for me when you design the to run
40:55
an app like Uber where the actual
real people are gonna meet strangers.
41:00
This should be treated as urgent and
41:05
critical as a bug if
the payment doesn't go through.
41:08
This is the safety of people who are gonna
use the products we are building,
41:12
should be part of all the and priorities.
41:18
This is not just we build a product and we
see what happened, this is expecting and
41:22
imagining what's gonna happen when
someone we're gonna use the product, and
41:26
that goes for the legal name, as well.
41:30
It's like it's your product requires
the name to match the legal
41:32
name on their ID,
you're losing the 3 million people and
41:38
you're making them very uncomfortable,
if not dangerous situation.
41:43
And so, if we have a few user research.
41:49
So, yeah, we can go to the next one.
41:52
If we have some user experience research
or you do have people working with
41:54
you who are doing user experience
research or usability testing,
41:59
which is what I do, half of my time is
doing UX research and usability testing.
42:04
So, the next slide I wanted
to share some ways to
42:09
remind ourselves that
when we talk to people,
42:13
we should include different
identities than ours,
42:18
and how we could actually seek them out.
42:22
So, that's a slide I
wanted to show around.
42:26
We have to challenge the assumption
that it's gonna be easy to use.
42:31
There are a lot of people who
have difficulties compared to
42:35
someone who has an iPhone and
like someone who needs the screen to
42:39
be bigger has a different way
of processing information.
42:44
Not, enough money to have an iPhone.
42:49
I never been traveling under it.
42:51
Even for the speed of the Internet,
we assume everyone has,
42:53
there's a lot of ways to test out that.
42:58
And by talking to people during
the user experience research, and
43:01
having them share how they live at that
moment, what is the tool they use?
43:05
We can stop a project with that in mind
and not having put them out, let them out.
43:10
And we have to seek them out.
43:17
They won't come by themselves.
43:21
So, there's a way to
plan that in advance and
43:23
find communities where we
want to hear from them.
43:26
Communities of trans or
queer folks, people who are Latinx,
43:29
people who are speaking English, but
this is not their first language,
43:34
there's a lot of ways we should
do research with more inclusion.
43:40
And added to their life means when
you are gonna hold research times,
43:45
you have to be where they are.
43:51
Like some people work three jobs, so,
they can't come at 2 PM on a Tuesday.
43:53
So, you might have to go
on a Saturday at 7 PM,
43:58
close to their home, to have those
interviews to make their life easier.
44:01
And you are the one paid by the client or
having a salary to do that research.
44:05
So, they shouldn't be the one putting more
44:10
efforts to be your guinea pig,
as we've said.
44:14
And then for sure the last one
which is the what should be
44:19
part of all research testing is to
compensate people with dollars.
44:23
If client's okay, but
really if it's really adding
44:28
really cash and having them compensated.
44:33
And the last thing I wanted to add is,
also thinking of the self-care
44:37
of the people you're gonna ask question
around their identity, if they're trans,
44:41
and plan for that, as well.
44:46
Be respectful of their identity.
44:47
And we have two last polls that
I'm gonna open on the polls.
44:50
One is, they're already there, okay?
44:55
One is,
when will you start implementing tomorrow?
45:02
So, if you want to pick an action so
we have a few on the poll for
45:05
you to choose and see how you could
already spread the awareness.
45:09
And the other one it's the same one as our
first one, when you entered the session
45:14
is, how comfortable now do you feel
designing for transgender, non-binary,
45:19
and/or gender-non-conforming folks to see
if this function was helpful for you?
45:25
And that's it, thank you.
45:30
>> Thank you so much Maxim and Madelaine.
45:34
I really really appreciate you sharing
your life experience and your knowledge.
45:37
I know it is hard to do that.
45:43
And it's tiring.
45:46
But it's important and I appreciate it.
45:49
You all that attended thank you for
45:52
your thoughtful comments
in the commenting section.
45:55
And please do take
action after this panel.
46:00
Thank you both very much.
46:03
And we'll see you,
hopefully, sometime soon.
46:05
All of you attendees please
stick around and network.
46:09
There is a networking section
in hop in which is on the left.
46:13
Just click the button and you'll start
to meet some amazing other attendees.
46:18
So, thank you very much.
46:22
Everyone have a good day.
46:23
And we'll see you tomorrow for
the last day of the festival.
46:24
Take care, bye.
46:28
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