1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,402 [MUSIC] 2 00:00:06,402 --> 00:00:12,524 Well, hello, I am so happy to welcome Emily Schweiss today. 3 00:00:12,524 --> 00:00:15,114 She is a dear colleague and friend. 4 00:00:15,114 --> 00:00:19,794 Emily has a background in human resources and technical recruiting. 5 00:00:19,794 --> 00:00:23,760 While at Treehouse for the last six years or more, 6 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:27,631 she has held a variety of roles and experiences, 7 00:00:27,631 --> 00:00:33,392 such as building a grant fund training program that removes barriers for 8 00:00:33,392 --> 00:00:36,430 those rescaling for a career in tech. 9 00:00:36,430 --> 00:00:40,968 Guiding employers to an apprenticeship playbook as they onboard entry level 10 00:00:40,968 --> 00:00:43,918 software developers from diverse backgrounds. 11 00:00:43,918 --> 00:00:48,605 She's also been involved in revamping hiring practices with a focus on 12 00:00:48,605 --> 00:00:49,472 inclusion. 13 00:00:49,472 --> 00:00:53,181 And for fun, she sews her own wardrobe y'all, 14 00:00:53,181 --> 00:00:57,913 throws crappy dinner parties, her words perhaps not mine, 15 00:00:57,913 --> 00:01:02,304 and watches bad movies with her husband and three cats. 16 00:01:02,304 --> 00:01:04,532 Please welcome, Emily. 17 00:01:04,532 --> 00:01:07,372 >> Hey, how's everyone doing? 18 00:01:07,372 --> 00:01:12,572 Thank you for that intro, Toni, and yes, those dinner parties are indeed crappy. 19 00:01:12,572 --> 00:01:14,789 [LAUGH] But hey, I'm Emily, you can call. 20 00:01:14,789 --> 00:01:16,842 My pronouns are she/her. 21 00:01:16,842 --> 00:01:21,418 But I think you've heard enough about me so far today, so let's go ahead and 22 00:01:21,418 --> 00:01:23,432 move on to the dragon in the room. 23 00:01:24,876 --> 00:01:26,983 Let me share my screen here. 24 00:01:31,872 --> 00:01:36,617 All righty, imposter syndrome. 25 00:01:36,617 --> 00:01:41,176 We'll look at the official definition here in a bit, but I'm curious, 26 00:01:41,176 --> 00:01:44,106 who here is familiar with imposter syndrome? 27 00:01:44,106 --> 00:01:49,528 You ever struggled with it personally? 28 00:01:49,528 --> 00:01:52,942 Anyone struggling with it right now? 29 00:01:52,942 --> 00:01:53,693 I am. 30 00:01:53,693 --> 00:01:59,054 [LAUGH] I know, the irony is not lost on me. 31 00:01:59,054 --> 00:02:01,498 Have you noticed that change now that you're in tech? 32 00:02:01,498 --> 00:02:03,580 Does it feel different than it used to? 33 00:02:05,984 --> 00:02:06,630 Yeah. 34 00:02:10,455 --> 00:02:13,757 Well, since we started this talk, I think it's safe to say that's probably yet 35 00:02:13,757 --> 00:02:15,619 another new JavaScript framework, right? 36 00:02:15,619 --> 00:02:18,786 And there's someone out there who's already an expert in it, 37 00:02:18,786 --> 00:02:19,929 and you're like how? 38 00:02:19,929 --> 00:02:21,770 How do they keep up, right? 39 00:02:21,770 --> 00:02:25,494 And meanwhile, I can never learn enough, I can never do enough. 40 00:02:25,494 --> 00:02:28,083 When is everyone gonna notice that I'm just a hack, right? 41 00:02:28,083 --> 00:02:31,560 And I'm not making it, I'm not able to do this. 42 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:33,305 But I have news for you. 43 00:02:33,305 --> 00:02:36,315 Here's the thing, you're not a fraud, I promise. 44 00:02:36,315 --> 00:02:40,510 While everyone feels like an imposter at some points in their career or even in 45 00:02:40,510 --> 00:02:45,237 their life, it happens on a daily basis in the field of software development, right? 46 00:02:45,237 --> 00:02:48,834 Technology is changing at such a ridiculous pace. 47 00:02:48,834 --> 00:02:53,324 There's no way any one person can keep up, and I promise you, nobody is. 48 00:02:53,324 --> 00:02:57,599 [LAUGH] So today, we're gonna work on getting to know imposter syndrome behind 49 00:02:57,599 --> 00:03:01,308 the buzzword, and figure out ways that we can conquer it together. 50 00:03:03,036 --> 00:03:05,846 So let's look at that definition, right? 51 00:03:05,846 --> 00:03:10,450 Imposter syndrome is a concept describing high-achieving individuals who 52 00:03:10,450 --> 00:03:14,557 are marked by an inability to internalize their accomplishments and 53 00:03:14,557 --> 00:03:17,334 a persistent fear of being exposed as a fraud. 54 00:03:17,334 --> 00:03:21,566 The main takeaway time and again from this definition is that 55 00:03:21,566 --> 00:03:25,304 persistent fear of being exposed as a fraud, right? 56 00:03:25,304 --> 00:03:27,187 That's what we hear all the time. 57 00:03:27,187 --> 00:03:31,223 But what if we shift our focus just a little bit and 58 00:03:31,223 --> 00:03:34,081 instead look at the real problem, 59 00:03:34,081 --> 00:03:39,318 the inability to internalize your accomplishments, right? 60 00:03:39,318 --> 00:03:43,274 That fear of being exposed is actually the effect, it's not the cause. 61 00:03:43,274 --> 00:03:44,914 You can't control that piece. 62 00:03:44,914 --> 00:03:49,768 The piece you can control is actually internalizing those accomplishments, and 63 00:03:49,768 --> 00:03:51,677 sometimes those failures too. 64 00:03:51,677 --> 00:03:54,038 We're gonna talk about both of those a little bit today. 65 00:03:54,038 --> 00:03:56,525 So with this framing in mind, 66 00:03:56,525 --> 00:04:01,203 let's take a look at three ways we can slay this dragon. 67 00:04:01,203 --> 00:04:04,224 So for years, I don't know about anyone else, but 68 00:04:04,224 --> 00:04:09,020 anytime someone gave me a compliment at work, I'd be like, yeah, I got lucky. 69 00:04:09,020 --> 00:04:11,338 Luck, I got lucky, thanks. 70 00:04:11,338 --> 00:04:15,937 Meanwhile, anytime I screwed something up, which happens all the time, 71 00:04:15,937 --> 00:04:19,805 no matter how trivial it was, right, I would berate myself for 72 00:04:19,805 --> 00:04:22,816 the mistakes incessantly, it's not helping. 73 00:04:22,816 --> 00:04:26,618 Someone finally called me out on it though and was like, look, 74 00:04:26,618 --> 00:04:31,585 you did a lot of work to get to this lucky opportunity, this lucky moment, right? 75 00:04:31,585 --> 00:04:35,638 Don't ignore the work that you put in to get there, acknowledge it. 76 00:04:35,638 --> 00:04:38,119 Acknowledge the mistakes too, that was progress. 77 00:04:38,119 --> 00:04:40,280 That's what helps get you here. 78 00:04:40,280 --> 00:04:41,871 So how about you all? 79 00:04:41,871 --> 00:04:46,093 Do you often focus on those little mistakes along the way instead of the big 80 00:04:46,093 --> 00:04:46,988 wins, right? 81 00:04:46,988 --> 00:04:51,150 That's a big part of this imposter syndrome problem. 82 00:04:51,150 --> 00:04:54,166 And that's gonna bring us to our first tip, 83 00:04:54,166 --> 00:04:56,783 which is to learn to own your awesome. 84 00:04:56,783 --> 00:05:01,113 I'm not saying that now like I easily celebrate effortlessly every time I do 85 00:05:01,113 --> 00:05:05,728 something good, no, [LAUGH] I'm still not great at taking compliments either. 86 00:05:05,728 --> 00:05:07,633 You can ask Toni, I stammer and turn red. 87 00:05:07,633 --> 00:05:08,420 It's not great. 88 00:05:08,420 --> 00:05:13,137 But the key here was actually becoming mindful of the issue, right? 89 00:05:13,137 --> 00:05:17,036 So now when those wins happen, I know I need to pause, and 90 00:05:17,036 --> 00:05:22,183 I need to celebrate, and really own the fact that I made it happen, right? 91 00:05:22,183 --> 00:05:26,377 Good and bad happened along the way, but at the end of the day, I made it happen, 92 00:05:26,377 --> 00:05:28,959 and I need to acknowledge that and really own it. 93 00:05:28,959 --> 00:05:34,174 Software development by its very nature is gonna pit you against several failures and 94 00:05:34,174 --> 00:05:35,125 very few wins. 95 00:05:35,125 --> 00:05:36,772 It's challenging work, right? 96 00:05:36,772 --> 00:05:38,350 It's the nature of the beast. 97 00:05:38,350 --> 00:05:41,438 And it's likely what might have attracted you to this, right? 98 00:05:41,438 --> 00:05:43,218 Brains like ours like a challenge. 99 00:05:43,218 --> 00:05:48,950 We like confronting new things, but we know it's also very frustrating at times. 100 00:05:48,950 --> 00:05:50,949 But it's part of the learning process, right, 101 00:05:50,949 --> 00:05:52,474 and we need to embrace that process. 102 00:05:54,947 --> 00:05:58,309 So what about those times when we don't got this, right? 103 00:05:58,309 --> 00:05:59,379 Get rid of those? 104 00:05:59,379 --> 00:06:00,107 I do. 105 00:06:00,107 --> 00:06:06,473 [LAUGH] We know any learning process is gonna include mistakes along the way. 106 00:06:06,473 --> 00:06:10,365 New tools and technologies are released every day, nobody can keep up. 107 00:06:10,365 --> 00:06:13,348 It feels defeating only if you let it be. 108 00:06:13,348 --> 00:06:18,520 So in those times when I feel really stuck, I like to reach for a can of WD-40. 109 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:22,587 Sounds a little silly, I'm not grabbing it for the reason you think I might be. 110 00:06:22,587 --> 00:06:26,175 Does anyone know where the name came from? 111 00:06:26,175 --> 00:06:29,492 It's actually water displacement number 40. 112 00:06:29,492 --> 00:06:34,403 So the chemist who created it, Norm Larsen, he finally landed on the proper 113 00:06:34,403 --> 00:06:38,946 formula in his 40th attempt, which is how we got the name WD-40. 114 00:06:38,946 --> 00:06:41,692 So you could think of that as 39 failures, right? 115 00:06:41,692 --> 00:06:46,459 Or instead, what I would challenge you to do is think of times like this as 116 00:06:46,459 --> 00:06:49,756 a 39-step process that led to the win, right? 117 00:06:49,756 --> 00:06:52,331 There are millions of stories just like that one out there. 118 00:06:52,331 --> 00:06:55,807 You'd be amazed with the names of some of the products we use every day and 119 00:06:55,807 --> 00:06:56,786 how they came to be. 120 00:06:56,786 --> 00:07:00,083 But I promise you, your story is not alone. 121 00:07:00,083 --> 00:07:04,582 Every success story involves lots of many failures that 122 00:07:04,582 --> 00:07:08,322 are actually learning moments along the way. 123 00:07:08,322 --> 00:07:13,245 So with that, that's our second tip, right, own and even voice your mistakes. 124 00:07:13,245 --> 00:07:15,594 Don't suffer in silence. 125 00:07:15,594 --> 00:07:21,038 By acknowledging your mistakes and seeking input from others, you will not only 126 00:07:21,038 --> 00:07:26,580 improve yourself, but likely learn from others and help them learn too, right? 127 00:07:26,580 --> 00:07:30,196 They're dealing with these obstacles consistently as well, 128 00:07:30,196 --> 00:07:33,751 and they can learn along with you as you keep making progress. 129 00:07:33,751 --> 00:07:37,886 Besides knowing that your colleagues and counterparts are also feeling inadequate 130 00:07:37,886 --> 00:07:40,340 at times can help ease your own distress, right? 131 00:07:40,340 --> 00:07:43,596 So there's a lot of good in that, in being open and transparent. 132 00:07:47,247 --> 00:07:49,899 So by definition, like we talked about earlier, 133 00:07:49,899 --> 00:07:53,632 those who suffer from imposter syndrome are high achievers, right? 134 00:07:53,632 --> 00:07:58,270 And I think that with that achievement, it's easy for others to look at you and 135 00:07:58,270 --> 00:08:02,081 think like, they've got all their ducks in a row, right? 136 00:08:02,081 --> 00:08:04,745 There's that line of some people have their ducks in a row, 137 00:08:04,745 --> 00:08:06,840 others have squirrels and they're at a rave. 138 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:10,869 That's more how I feel [LAUGH] even if sometimes it looks like my ducks are in 139 00:08:10,869 --> 00:08:11,722 a row, right? 140 00:08:11,722 --> 00:08:14,962 So while it's important to lean on others when you 141 00:08:14,962 --> 00:08:18,127 need assistance with a new tool or a new concept, 142 00:08:18,127 --> 00:08:22,852 it's equally as important to support others as they're learning too. 143 00:08:22,852 --> 00:08:27,414 Which leads us to tip number three, own and share your knowledge. 144 00:08:27,414 --> 00:08:29,573 Support others who are new to a thing, 145 00:08:29,573 --> 00:08:33,296 especially in those moments when you might be the pro in the room. 146 00:08:33,296 --> 00:08:35,061 They likely know something you don't and 147 00:08:35,061 --> 00:08:37,036 will be able to return the favor down the road. 148 00:08:37,036 --> 00:08:40,270 But knowing how devastating imposter syndrome can feel, 149 00:08:40,270 --> 00:08:44,497 make sure you're not contributing to someone else's suffering, right? 150 00:08:44,497 --> 00:08:46,724 Do not make it worse for them. 151 00:08:46,724 --> 00:08:50,178 If someone just learned about something that you're well versed in, 152 00:08:50,178 --> 00:08:53,353 don't give them that, my god, you didn't know about that? 153 00:08:53,353 --> 00:08:54,115 No, no, no. 154 00:08:54,115 --> 00:08:55,889 [LAUGH] Instead be excited, 155 00:08:55,889 --> 00:09:00,449 you get to show them about this new to them thing that you love, right? 156 00:09:00,449 --> 00:09:02,976 You're gonna love this, let me show you why. 157 00:09:02,976 --> 00:09:04,192 Build that excitement with them. 158 00:09:04,192 --> 00:09:05,639 Help them on their learning journey. 159 00:09:05,639 --> 00:09:09,338 Help them avoid some of the mistakes you made when it was new to you too. 160 00:09:09,338 --> 00:09:14,110 I've learned one of the best ways for me to collaborate with my team or mentor 161 00:09:14,110 --> 00:09:18,825 others is to pull back that curtain, right, and let those flaws be shown. 162 00:09:18,825 --> 00:09:22,830 Transparency and empathy will get you far in this life, personally and 163 00:09:22,830 --> 00:09:23,910 professionally. 164 00:09:23,910 --> 00:09:28,437 So the more we see others have traveled the same difficult path that we're on, 165 00:09:28,437 --> 00:09:31,532 the easier it is for us to continue on our own journey. 166 00:09:33,911 --> 00:09:36,697 So those are my tips in a nutshell. 167 00:09:36,697 --> 00:09:40,565 I want you to own your awesome, your mistakes, and your knowledge. 168 00:09:40,565 --> 00:09:43,304 Work to shift that perspective, right? 169 00:09:43,304 --> 00:09:47,575 And know that internalizing your accomplishments will really help you beat 170 00:09:47,575 --> 00:09:48,784 imposter syndrome. 171 00:09:48,784 --> 00:09:53,543 So now that we have these three basic frameworks, I'm gonna chat a little bit 172 00:09:53,543 --> 00:09:58,700 about how I put these into use in my own life, and then I'd love to open it up. 173 00:09:58,700 --> 00:10:00,654 And hear how others are doing that, 174 00:10:00,654 --> 00:10:03,725 if you have any tips that you would like to share as well. 175 00:10:03,725 --> 00:10:05,650 So let's build our arsenal together. 176 00:10:07,220 --> 00:10:08,854 So my educational background, 177 00:10:08,854 --> 00:10:12,780 I have a bachelor's degree in psychology with a minor in sociology. 178 00:10:12,780 --> 00:10:17,087 And one of the biggest lessons I learned in school, one of my professors said, 179 00:10:17,087 --> 00:10:20,980 don't put all of your confidence eggs in one basket. 180 00:10:20,980 --> 00:10:25,010 Spread your abilities around increase your happiness and confidence. 181 00:10:25,010 --> 00:10:25,810 So what does that look like? 182 00:10:25,810 --> 00:10:28,140 What does that mean? 183 00:10:28,140 --> 00:10:30,574 Well, if I have a bad day at work, and they happen, right? 184 00:10:30,574 --> 00:10:33,363 I work in a great place, but bad days still happen. 185 00:10:33,363 --> 00:10:37,595 If I only am focusing on my identity as who I am at work, 186 00:10:37,595 --> 00:10:40,430 then I'm having a bad day, right? 187 00:10:40,430 --> 00:10:41,143 That's it. 188 00:10:41,143 --> 00:10:42,062 That's all of me. 189 00:10:42,062 --> 00:10:44,010 [LAUGH] So, the day is ruined. 190 00:10:44,010 --> 00:10:48,527 But if instead I'm able to look beyond that and see all the different facets 191 00:10:48,527 --> 00:10:51,981 of me and who I am, all the things that make me me, right? 192 00:10:51,981 --> 00:10:52,980 I'm a wife. 193 00:10:52,980 --> 00:10:53,760 I'm a daughter. 194 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:54,440 I'm a sister. 195 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:55,030 I'm a friend. 196 00:10:55,030 --> 00:10:56,320 I'm a cat mom. 197 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:59,400 I'm a soloist, I'm a baker, I'm all these different things. 198 00:11:00,580 --> 00:11:04,464 No matter what, then, if I'm having a bad day in one area, 199 00:11:04,464 --> 00:11:09,520 I can go lean on something else and remind myself that I still have skill. 200 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:10,170 I have value. 201 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:14,500 For me it often comes from sewing and baking, right? 202 00:11:14,500 --> 00:11:19,050 It's amazing the confidence I get when I'm able to wear something that I made, right? 203 00:11:19,050 --> 00:11:20,630 Like I made the shirt years ago [LAUGH]. 204 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:23,600 It's still a shirt, it hasn't fallen apart. 205 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:24,800 I did a thing once, right? 206 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:27,155 It's a great reminder for me. 207 00:11:27,155 --> 00:11:28,467 I don't care how simple it is, right? 208 00:11:28,467 --> 00:11:30,908 If making a shirt sounds scary to you, bake some cookies. 209 00:11:30,908 --> 00:11:34,344 Just do something little to remind yourself, I can do this and 210 00:11:34,344 --> 00:11:38,170 I'm more than just this one bad thing that happens to me, right? 211 00:11:38,170 --> 00:11:39,510 Spread that confidence around a bit. 212 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:44,040 I would also recommend flexing that grit muscle. 213 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:47,300 If you practice this in multiple areas and that can be through hobbies. 214 00:11:47,300 --> 00:11:50,180 It can be through fitness like, running or hiking. 215 00:11:50,180 --> 00:11:52,133 Any of those types of things, 216 00:11:52,133 --> 00:11:57,470 are going to kinda show you how you build your progress over time, right? 217 00:11:57,470 --> 00:12:01,468 When you're starting out running or hiking, you're gonna be able to see over 218 00:12:01,468 --> 00:12:05,180 time you're able to go a longer distance or maybe move at a faster speed. 219 00:12:05,180 --> 00:12:10,474 It might be slow, but it's a great way to remind yourself that with dedication and 220 00:12:10,474 --> 00:12:14,016 a little discipline, you can make progress, right? 221 00:12:14,016 --> 00:12:17,914 And that means when you're stuck and it's something professional, 222 00:12:17,914 --> 00:12:21,020 having flexed that grip muscle in those personal ways, 223 00:12:21,020 --> 00:12:24,740 helps you apply that same grit when you're feeling stuck at work. 224 00:12:24,740 --> 00:12:28,660 So, it's a great way to kinda practice that and build up your confidence. 225 00:12:29,860 --> 00:12:33,442 Another thing I'd recommend highly and I'm still bad at this, 226 00:12:33,442 --> 00:12:36,506 I'm still working on it, is to stand up for yourself. 227 00:12:36,506 --> 00:12:38,760 This can look like a variety of things. 228 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:42,050 You can write out a list of the skills you're competent in. 229 00:12:42,050 --> 00:12:44,600 That can be hard to do for us sometimes, right? 230 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:48,120 Maybe talk to a friend and have them help you find those items. 231 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:52,350 For some folks, it's more of a gratitude list that framing works better, right? 232 00:12:52,350 --> 00:12:55,750 Here are the things I'm grateful for that helped make me, me. 233 00:12:55,750 --> 00:12:57,460 And this is a list I can keep handy and 234 00:12:57,460 --> 00:13:00,210 reference on those days when I just need a boost, right? 235 00:13:01,570 --> 00:13:05,620 One of my favorite podcasts is called, the hilarious world of depression. 236 00:13:05,620 --> 00:13:08,540 I don't know if anyone's listened to it, but it's awesome. 237 00:13:08,540 --> 00:13:11,792 They interview all sorts of well known folks, usually comedians, 238 00:13:11,792 --> 00:13:15,250 who struggle with depression and anxiety, which I do as well. 239 00:13:15,250 --> 00:13:18,050 And so, I find it really helpful for me and my personal struggles. 240 00:13:18,050 --> 00:13:22,198 It's been helpful to share with my partner cuz he can kinda understand where I'm 241 00:13:22,198 --> 00:13:23,485 coming from sometimes. 242 00:13:23,485 --> 00:13:27,028 But they did a show, an episode all about imposter syndrome once, and 243 00:13:27,028 --> 00:13:28,539 they were sharing some tips. 244 00:13:28,539 --> 00:13:33,321 And they recommended, prepare yourself with a pep talk, as if you were 245 00:13:33,321 --> 00:13:38,040 explaining your accomplishments to a room of people you don't like. 246 00:13:39,350 --> 00:13:40,690 So, think about that for a moment, right? 247 00:13:40,690 --> 00:13:44,010 Maybe go back to high school, that person that made you miserable or 248 00:13:44,010 --> 00:13:45,010 any of those folks. 249 00:13:45,010 --> 00:13:48,359 If they were to check in with you and say, how are you doing today? 250 00:13:48,359 --> 00:13:50,394 You are gonna put that best foot forward, right? 251 00:13:50,394 --> 00:13:54,270 You are suddenly going to have a list of all the things that are awesome about you. 252 00:13:54,270 --> 00:13:55,345 That's where that list is. 253 00:13:55,345 --> 00:13:57,040 [LAUGH] Lean on it. 254 00:13:58,090 --> 00:14:00,756 I kinda prefer a slightly more positive framing. 255 00:14:00,756 --> 00:14:03,675 So, instead of thinking about folks you don't like, 256 00:14:03,675 --> 00:14:07,000 think about how you would talk to your best friends, right? 257 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:10,020 Your BFF comes to you, they screwed up. 258 00:14:10,020 --> 00:14:11,540 They did something wrong. 259 00:14:11,540 --> 00:14:15,620 Are you gonna berate them, are you gonna make them feel bad or feel worse? 260 00:14:15,620 --> 00:14:17,880 No, you're gonna support them. 261 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:20,150 You're gonna give them a hug, right? 262 00:14:20,150 --> 00:14:22,828 You're gonna remind them of all the progress they've made, 263 00:14:22,828 --> 00:14:26,293 how far they've come, why they're on this journey, what's coming up next. 264 00:14:26,293 --> 00:14:30,200 And you're gonna figure out how to help, like, where do we go from here, right? 265 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:34,067 So, allow yourself that same grace you would show to your best friends. 266 00:14:34,067 --> 00:14:36,000 It's so important. 267 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:39,930 I would say this also works really well to combat negative self talk. 268 00:14:39,930 --> 00:14:41,359 Anyone else have that? 269 00:14:41,359 --> 00:14:44,120 Voice in my head is not nice you all, but 270 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:47,825 I encourage you to befriend it, even give it a name. 271 00:14:47,825 --> 00:14:48,889 I call mine chatter. 272 00:14:48,889 --> 00:14:51,660 You can borrow that, you can come up with something more clever. 273 00:14:51,660 --> 00:14:53,117 But call it out when it happens. 274 00:14:53,117 --> 00:14:58,310 When that voice is telling you that you are not enough, tell what you are, right? 275 00:14:58,310 --> 00:15:02,190 Refer back to those lists and remind yourself that you are enough. 276 00:15:02,190 --> 00:15:05,750 You have value, you add value, you're learning, you're a work in progress. 277 00:15:08,060 --> 00:15:09,270 So, what's worked for you? 278 00:15:09,270 --> 00:15:14,411 I'd be curious to hear if anyone else has tips on how they've combated Imposter 279 00:15:14,411 --> 00:15:19,800 syndrome, how they flex their grip muscles, spread their joy, support others. 280 00:15:26,273 --> 00:15:28,427 Let me find my chat too, sorry. 281 00:15:41,377 --> 00:15:44,420 [LAUGH] I see Tony talking about those lemon mama cookies. 282 00:15:44,420 --> 00:15:45,280 She loves them you all. 283 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:46,381 I need to send her a box. 284 00:15:56,660 --> 00:16:03,180 All right, I don't see any questions in Q&A, around imposter syndrome. 285 00:16:03,180 --> 00:16:06,470 But hopefully those tips are helpful to you all. 286 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:10,530 I know imposter syndrome is a constant struggle, trust me. 287 00:16:10,530 --> 00:16:15,740 I feel it every day, every moment and it's hard, right? 288 00:16:15,740 --> 00:16:20,616 But hopefully these tools will really help you kinda reframe your approach to it, 289 00:16:20,616 --> 00:16:21,117 right? 290 00:16:21,117 --> 00:16:25,014 And find ways to combat it and to help those around you combat it as well. 291 00:16:25,014 --> 00:16:27,130 I think there's so much power in sharing that load. 292 00:16:28,570 --> 00:16:30,970 So yeah, at the end of the day, I just want you all to slay. 293 00:16:30,970 --> 00:16:32,410 I know you can, I know it's in you. 294 00:16:45,210 --> 00:16:50,190 All right, I don't see any questions. 295 00:16:50,190 --> 00:16:50,880 Stage chat. 296 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:51,560 Let me check there. 297 00:16:59,850 --> 00:17:02,666 Yes, someone in green acknowledging it, with coworkers and 298 00:17:02,666 --> 00:17:04,084 superiors is really freeing. 299 00:17:04,084 --> 00:17:06,030 I would say, especially superiors, right? 300 00:17:06,030 --> 00:17:08,561 I think sometimes we put folks in leadership on a pedestal and 301 00:17:08,561 --> 00:17:11,100 think, they've got it together. 302 00:17:11,100 --> 00:17:13,590 No, [LAUGH] they don't either. 303 00:17:13,590 --> 00:17:14,278 It's okay. 304 00:17:14,278 --> 00:17:18,682 Be transparent. 305 00:17:24,286 --> 00:17:26,530 Mental illness happy hours, and other great podcasts too. 306 00:17:26,530 --> 00:17:27,590 Thanks for sharing, Dave. 307 00:17:27,590 --> 00:17:28,473 Nice to see you here. 308 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:35,178 Awesome, I'm not seeing many, here. 309 00:17:35,178 --> 00:17:37,122 Let me check here for any questions. 310 00:17:42,410 --> 00:17:46,145 How do you own your own mistakes without making it look like you're terrible at 311 00:17:46,145 --> 00:17:46,843 your job? 312 00:17:46,843 --> 00:17:48,870 My gosh, I love that. 313 00:17:48,870 --> 00:17:53,630 That's a great question and that's the line I've tried to walk myself. 314 00:17:53,630 --> 00:18:00,350 I think it's important how you say it, right? 315 00:18:00,350 --> 00:18:03,795 So it's not just coming into the room and being like, you all, I screwed up, 316 00:18:03,795 --> 00:18:04,378 I'm a mess. 317 00:18:04,378 --> 00:18:07,710 [LAUGH] That's gonna make you look terrible, right? 318 00:18:07,710 --> 00:18:12,080 It's more about owning like, hey you all, I found a mistake. 319 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:17,340 I think I might have a solution or I could use some help to figure this out. 320 00:18:17,340 --> 00:18:19,290 But we have a great learning moment here. 321 00:18:19,290 --> 00:18:22,170 So, who wants to go on this journey with me, right? 322 00:18:22,170 --> 00:18:25,627 So, framing it as progress and learning, as reacting and 323 00:18:25,627 --> 00:18:29,435 pivoting instead of just like, I screwed up and that's it, but 324 00:18:29,435 --> 00:18:33,335 actually pulling out, here's what I'm going to learn from it. 325 00:18:33,335 --> 00:18:35,285 Here's how I'm going to do better going forward. 326 00:18:35,285 --> 00:18:37,915 Here's how I'm going to avoid this mistake. 327 00:18:37,915 --> 00:18:39,647 It'll make you look like a powerhouse and 328 00:18:39,647 --> 00:18:41,745 not like you're terrible at your job, right? 329 00:18:41,745 --> 00:18:43,556 Every job is supposed to help stretch you. 330 00:18:43,556 --> 00:18:46,530 There's supposed to be challenges, there's supposed to be new things. 331 00:18:46,530 --> 00:18:50,190 You're supposed to fail a few times and that's okay, there's space for that. 332 00:18:50,190 --> 00:18:55,028 But it's all about the framing honestly, and making sure that you're letting folks 333 00:18:55,028 --> 00:19:00,050 know, hey, I accept and own that this didn't go the way I had hoped it would. 334 00:19:00,050 --> 00:19:03,820 But I'm gonna tackle a new plan and I could use your help with that, or 335 00:19:03,820 --> 00:19:07,079 I can use you as a sounding board with my proposed solution. 336 00:19:07,079 --> 00:19:10,700 Just that simple framing makes all the difference in the world. 337 00:19:12,820 --> 00:19:15,651 Okay, should you feel imposter syndrome affects you more if you don't 338 00:19:15,651 --> 00:19:17,900 have a degree like others in the workplace? 339 00:19:17,900 --> 00:19:19,410 That's a great question. 340 00:19:19,410 --> 00:19:24,447 I would say, imposter syndrome definitely hits different 341 00:19:24,447 --> 00:19:29,194 if you don't feel represented in the space you're in. 342 00:19:29,194 --> 00:19:30,831 That can look like a few things, right.? 343 00:19:30,831 --> 00:19:35,292 That can look like, I don't have a degree, everyone else here does. 344 00:19:35,292 --> 00:19:37,030 Spoiler, they're not smarter than you. 345 00:19:37,030 --> 00:19:39,930 They just had an opportunity, you'd done it, right? 346 00:19:39,930 --> 00:19:45,000 Or spent their money in a different way that in no way increases their value. 347 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:46,420 It honestly doesn't. 348 00:19:46,420 --> 00:19:49,040 I think this also happens to women. 349 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:54,170 I think it's safe to assume it likely happens to people of color too. 350 00:19:54,170 --> 00:19:56,993 Anytime you're in a situation when you look around the room and you're like, 351 00:19:56,993 --> 00:19:59,180 I'm the only one who looks like me. 352 00:19:59,180 --> 00:20:02,060 That's gonna make that imposter syndrome really spike. 353 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:07,170 So yeah, it definitely does kinda amplify it. 354 00:20:07,170 --> 00:20:11,249 But I think all of these tools, and especially being able to identify someone 355 00:20:11,249 --> 00:20:14,574 who shares the same identity as you to lean on in those moments, 356 00:20:14,574 --> 00:20:17,170 even if they're not at your workplace, right? 357 00:20:17,170 --> 00:20:21,412 Maybe you found them on the for example. 358 00:20:21,412 --> 00:20:23,996 And you can kinda connect with them and remind yourself, hey, 359 00:20:23,996 --> 00:20:25,228 we're doing this together. 360 00:20:25,228 --> 00:20:28,672 We're doing the hard work, and we're laying that foundation for 361 00:20:28,672 --> 00:20:32,380 folks who look like us to come after us and feel empowered in this space. 362 00:20:34,590 --> 00:20:38,755 I see another question, what do you do when imposter syndrome paralyzes you and 363 00:20:38,755 --> 00:20:41,406 stops you from being productive? 364 00:20:41,406 --> 00:20:43,721 I feel that. 365 00:20:43,721 --> 00:20:46,640 I also get that in the form of analysis paralysis sometimes. 366 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:51,215 And honestly, the thing that's best for me is to take a break. 367 00:20:51,215 --> 00:20:55,413 Whatever it is that's causing that frustration, if it's a work thing, 368 00:20:55,413 --> 00:20:57,116 get up, get out of my office. 369 00:20:57,116 --> 00:21:01,858 Take a walk, have a cat [LAUGH] bake some cookies, whatever it is. 370 00:21:01,858 --> 00:21:05,690 Go do something different that will help you build that confidence. 371 00:21:05,690 --> 00:21:09,725 And sometimes I think we're most stuck when we're just trying to think through, 372 00:21:09,725 --> 00:21:11,020 how do I fix this, right? 373 00:21:11,020 --> 00:21:13,480 I need a solution, and you feel all that pressure. 374 00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:16,420 And you can't, your brain is just frozen and stuck. 375 00:21:17,580 --> 00:21:21,864 For me, what helps most is if I go do something physical, like take a walk or 376 00:21:21,864 --> 00:21:25,128 do some yoga, and just try to not think about it, right? 377 00:21:25,128 --> 00:21:26,240 Put it in the back of the brain. 378 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:27,768 I call it letting it marinate. 379 00:21:27,768 --> 00:21:30,927 It's amazing how many times the idea will surface an hour or so 380 00:21:30,927 --> 00:21:33,480 later after I've given myself that space. 381 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:35,270 So don't be afraid to take breaks. 382 00:21:36,330 --> 00:21:38,260 Give yourself some grace, right? 383 00:21:38,260 --> 00:21:40,190 Lean into what it might be that you need right now. 384 00:21:41,470 --> 00:21:45,467 And for me, that just happens to be something physical to kinda get me out of 385 00:21:45,467 --> 00:21:49,782 my head, off my screen, move away from it for a moment, get some perspective and 386 00:21:49,782 --> 00:21:51,250 come back with fresh eyes. 387 00:21:52,420 --> 00:21:54,649 Talking to a friend can be super helpful, too. 388 00:22:00,140 --> 00:22:01,555 These are great questions, y'all. 389 00:22:03,609 --> 00:22:04,540 Thank you. 390 00:22:04,540 --> 00:22:06,490 Anyone else have any tips they'd like to share? 391 00:22:07,660 --> 00:22:09,710 Anyways, they've combated imposter syndrome. 392 00:22:09,710 --> 00:22:11,320 They're like, I had a day. 393 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:12,260 Here's how I made it out. 394 00:22:12,260 --> 00:22:21,234 [LAUGH] Let me switch over to chat, make sure I'm not missing any. 395 00:22:27,053 --> 00:22:30,050 [LAUGH] Someone added, if you're in the same job without a degree, 396 00:22:30,050 --> 00:22:32,631 I would say you're ahead, no debt, and you're spent. 397 00:22:32,631 --> 00:22:34,430 [LAUGH] You can't reach the same place. 398 00:22:34,430 --> 00:22:37,211 It's true, I love that perspective, that's great. 399 00:22:40,530 --> 00:22:44,068 How do I react more positively when I see I've made mistakes and 400 00:22:44,068 --> 00:22:45,640 I have to start again? 401 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:49,990 That's a great question and work again are nice, right? 402 00:22:49,990 --> 00:22:51,620 And it's really all about framing. 403 00:22:51,620 --> 00:22:55,708 It's about seeing those mistakes as opportunities to learn at the end of 404 00:22:55,708 --> 00:22:56,310 the day. 405 00:22:56,310 --> 00:23:00,250 I know I've said that a lot today, but it's crucial, it really is. 406 00:23:00,250 --> 00:23:02,800 It's embracing that growth mindset. 407 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:05,238 It's living the life of a beginner, right? 408 00:23:05,238 --> 00:23:07,910 And knowing like, I'm starting out. 409 00:23:07,910 --> 00:23:09,640 I'm not gonna be great at this. 410 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:11,990 If I am, it probably is luck the first time, right? 411 00:23:13,490 --> 00:23:14,690 It's gonna be messy. 412 00:23:14,690 --> 00:23:15,851 We're gonna learn a ton. 413 00:23:15,851 --> 00:23:19,172 I don't know how many times I've said that in meetings this year as we're 414 00:23:19,172 --> 00:23:21,860 building some new products and whatnot. 415 00:23:21,860 --> 00:23:22,820 We're gonna mess up. 416 00:23:22,820 --> 00:23:25,645 We're gonna learn so much this quarter, y'all. 417 00:23:25,645 --> 00:23:28,240 Let's figure out what we're gonna do. 418 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:29,570 Something's gonna go wrong. 419 00:23:29,570 --> 00:23:32,082 We'll find it and we'll figure it out then, right? 420 00:23:32,082 --> 00:23:36,767 We'll pivot, we'll figure out a new way to tackle it and move forward from there. 421 00:23:36,767 --> 00:23:40,490 But creating that openness and that safety for 422 00:23:40,490 --> 00:23:44,889 folks to try something and fail goes a really long way. 423 00:23:44,889 --> 00:23:47,937 And if you're helping to do that for others, they're gonna help do it for 424 00:23:47,937 --> 00:23:48,440 you, too. 425 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:51,806 So if that culture doesn't exist where you work right now, 426 00:23:51,806 --> 00:23:53,903 you can help kind of create it, too. 427 00:23:53,903 --> 00:23:57,295 I know it's not easy, but letting others make mistakes too and 428 00:23:57,295 --> 00:23:59,340 letting them know it's okay. 429 00:23:59,340 --> 00:24:03,500 And sharing that knowledge when you know how to fix it is gonna go a long way. 430 00:24:03,500 --> 00:24:06,559 So when you're the person with the mistakes and you're like, gosh, 431 00:24:06,559 --> 00:24:10,200 I can't believe I have to let everyone know I just screwed this up. 432 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:13,681 You've already helped cultivate that space where it's okay to learn and 433 00:24:13,681 --> 00:24:14,473 grow together. 434 00:24:16,386 --> 00:24:17,280 I like this. 435 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:20,390 How do you own your own mistakes without throwing a fit? 436 00:24:20,390 --> 00:24:23,160 Woof, that takes time. 437 00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:26,505 Yoga and meditation helped me with that a lot. 438 00:24:26,505 --> 00:24:30,120 [LAUGH] I'm like a recovering perfectionist, right? 439 00:24:30,120 --> 00:24:34,460 So anytime things weren't perfect, I'd like freak out, I get it. 440 00:24:34,460 --> 00:24:35,505 I'm in a better place now. 441 00:24:35,505 --> 00:24:36,800 And it just took a lot of time. 442 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:40,652 I think therapy helped too if I'm being real. 443 00:24:40,652 --> 00:24:42,232 But a lot of it's just framing and 444 00:24:42,232 --> 00:24:44,820 understanding that it's part of the process. 445 00:24:44,820 --> 00:24:45,720 It's not a failure. 446 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:47,471 It's just a step, right? 447 00:24:54,109 --> 00:24:56,620 All right, I think I'm grabbing all the questions. 448 00:24:57,970 --> 00:25:00,260 Pausing, taking a breath. 449 00:25:00,260 --> 00:25:03,310 Yes, reacting negatively often comes from responding immediately. 450 00:25:03,310 --> 00:25:04,980 That is so true. 451 00:25:04,980 --> 00:25:09,683 It's amazing the power of taking a deep breath, y'all, or five. 452 00:25:09,683 --> 00:25:12,998 I think that can do so much in how we react to others, but 453 00:25:12,998 --> 00:25:15,606 also in how we react to ourselves, right? 454 00:25:15,606 --> 00:25:20,440 We can be our own worst critics, but just taking that break and pausing is so 455 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:22,143 helpful, great advice. 456 00:25:27,170 --> 00:25:29,655 There's still imposter syndrome when not having a degree. 457 00:25:29,655 --> 00:25:33,243 And they're still feeling like an imposter in a brand new field when the degree you 458 00:25:33,243 --> 00:25:35,435 went into debt for hasn't done anything for you. 459 00:25:35,435 --> 00:25:38,889 But you're now the fool because you're in debt and behind. 460 00:25:38,889 --> 00:25:40,500 I get that. 461 00:25:40,500 --> 00:25:45,110 As someone who majored in something that I don't really [LAUGH] 462 00:25:45,110 --> 00:25:48,310 technically work in that field, I get it. 463 00:25:49,490 --> 00:25:54,040 I still am able now to pull value from it and find ways that it still applies to my 464 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:56,921 life, even though I don't work in psychology. 465 00:25:56,921 --> 00:25:58,390 But yeah, it can be frustrating, right? 466 00:25:58,390 --> 00:26:00,770 That was four years of my life, but there was good in there. 467 00:26:00,770 --> 00:26:05,055 There were things I learned even if it wasn't directly applicable to the work I'm 468 00:26:05,055 --> 00:26:06,380 doing today. 469 00:26:06,380 --> 00:26:09,665 So reaching and just finding that value can be really helpful. 470 00:26:15,536 --> 00:26:17,550 Try the five whys method. 471 00:26:17,550 --> 00:26:19,310 Hey, Veronica, I haven't seen you in a while. 472 00:26:19,310 --> 00:26:21,030 Hope you're doing well. 473 00:26:21,030 --> 00:26:23,710 Yeah, the five whys method is great, right? 474 00:26:23,710 --> 00:26:26,013 I recommend googling it. 475 00:26:26,013 --> 00:26:30,648 When you don't know something, it's always helpful to just ask more questions, right? 476 00:26:30,648 --> 00:26:31,910 And help create that space for 477 00:26:31,910 --> 00:26:34,650 others too to ask questions when they're struggling, right? 478 00:26:35,810 --> 00:26:40,789 I think it's so important to not only apply these tools and tricks to yourself, 479 00:26:40,789 --> 00:26:42,490 but also to others. 480 00:26:42,490 --> 00:26:45,100 It'll just really help build that culture. 481 00:26:45,100 --> 00:26:48,780 That just makes it a lot easier to deal with all of this, right? 482 00:26:48,780 --> 00:26:50,536 Cuz we're all dealing with it. 483 00:26:50,536 --> 00:26:52,082 And the more we do it in silence and 484 00:26:52,082 --> 00:26:55,964 quietly and try to keep it behind closed doors, the harder it is for everyone else. 485 00:26:59,267 --> 00:27:01,980 Imposter syndrome doesn't discriminate. 486 00:27:01,980 --> 00:27:03,500 That's so true. 487 00:27:03,500 --> 00:27:08,590 Traditional or not, whatever your pathway was, it doesn't, it just hits different. 488 00:27:08,590 --> 00:27:10,231 Same with your different identities, right? 489 00:27:10,231 --> 00:27:12,818 It's gonna hit different if you have representation or 490 00:27:12,818 --> 00:27:14,480 not in the field of your choice. 491 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:15,727 It just hits differently. 492 00:27:18,175 --> 00:27:20,950 So some great insights, y'all, thank you. 493 00:27:20,950 --> 00:27:21,910 This has been really fun. 494 00:27:23,060 --> 00:27:26,882 I appreciate you all taking time with me today. 495 00:27:26,882 --> 00:27:28,110 Been nice to be here. 496 00:27:28,110 --> 00:27:31,469 I hope some of these tools and tips and tricks are helpful to you and 497 00:27:31,469 --> 00:27:35,030 I hope you're cultivating the space for everyone to learn and grow. 498 00:27:36,370 --> 00:27:37,800 Yes, thank you so much, everyone.